The Tenth Crusade
Saturday, August 22, 2015
Most recent Tom Foolery between Voris and Bishop Schneider, the Remnant, et al.
I did not follow the most recent dust up closely but I did read Bishop Schneider's statement that SSPX has done nothing 'weighty' to warrant the removal of their faculties and alienation from Christ's Church, blah, blah, blah.
I was really disappointed in Bishop Schneider. I thought he had more going on for himself.
Does SSPX have legitimate gripes about the catechesis and liturgical abuses by Vatican II nutcases?
Some of their gripes are, of course, legitimate. But with other gripes, they go right on into kookoo land themselves.
At the end of the day, there is nothing in the watered-down catechism that changed doctrine. It is pablum but the substance did not change or contradict Catholic theology.
Consequently, there was no 'weighty' reason for them to have ran off like petulant children. They have to admit to sufficient facts that they have been wrong and express their acceptance of the substance in the Catechism.
SSPX has been operating without faculties, simulating sacraments, performing illicit ordinations and episcopal elevations.
The fact that they won't accept the substance in the Catechism and they are off creating their own shtick makes them every bit as dangerous as the nuts who left the Church because they reject the substance of moral theology in the Catechism and are performing licit transubstantiations with puppets in the Holiday Inn.
If Bishop Schneider had penned a piece about the Holy See having no 'weighty reason' to continue to excommunicate 'women's ordination' groups, Bishop Schneider wouldn't have a sane person rushing to his defense.
The problem is, the Holy See should have pulled the trigger years ago and excommunicated SSPX. Just like the pedophiles and heretics. they let it ravage the vineyard. They are standing by frozen in fear, letting SSPX simulate sacraments and cause confusion and great harm.
Bishop Schneider's poophooing of the material and spiritual problems with SSPX was outlandish.
I have scratched the man off of the list of lucid shepherds and I would advise you to do the same.
The Bishop is smart, brave and has said many things that ring true in the absurdity of a papacy lining up heretics to spoon-feed us heresy from the counterfeit church they have built in Germany. But, he has blinders on and has used his pulpit in bad faith on this one. If he does it with this subject matter, he is not a reliable source.
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19 comments:
I never thought the day would come that I would say what I am going to say as I spent many, many years not only in an SSPX chapel, but in a sedevacantist chapel as well. But...I think they have done more harm than the left wing loonies in the Church. Why? They preyed on the dissatisfaction of Catholics, caught them in a weak and confused moment, and helped them to leave the Church.
Trust me, I would NEVER go running off to an SSPX Chapel for Mass, or anything else for that matter, but I did see the 'dust up' between Voris and the Remnant about it. What really distresses me, however, is the way Voris twisted Bishop Schneider's words in his 'clarification email' to look as if Bishop Schneider completely condemned the group in every aspect of their ministry, which was less than honest. Bishop Schneider said he saw no 'weighty' reason for the separation at this point, but did say that no, they are still not in full communion. He seemed to indicate that there should be a 'revisit' of the situation so that they CAN become one with Rome. Voris put a heavy spin on the 'clarification' and was not completely up front about the exchange. NO I am not an SSPX member, have never gone, and never would unless they are in FULL COMMUNION with Rome, but don't necessarily appreciate all out attacks on the order as if they are the Church's 'arch enemy'. Let me tell you, we have enough 'arch enemies' to fight right INSIDE the Church for crying out loud. This 'vendetta' that some seem to have against this group that has been at least trying to work with Rome is offensive, even for someone like me that is a N.O. Mass goer, and the deception from a Catholic journalist is really unacceptable. How 'bout we start concentrating on the heretics in Rome? We have plenty of them, sanctioned by the Church that are on the INSIDE and actively trying to destroy the Church of Christ!!
Indeed the fact that the good Bishop's words were twisted is bad form....May this circus end soon.
Morning Joe!!
I read Bishop Schneider's comments on SSPX and he is all over the map. I found his statements confusing and offensive as they pertain to this group which has repeatedly demonstrated they do not accept the Catechism, are simulating Sacraments and are disobedient.
To me, any and every group that rejects the Catechism and is is holed up in Holiday Inn simulating sacraments are all the same to me. Their conduct is indefensible and yet, the bishop says the reasons they don't have faculties do not have merit and their faculties should be restored.
It is outrageous.
If he said it about the whacky women priests or men who left the priesthood to marry some dame -- do you think for a New York minute the Remnant would be defending him?
I don't really know the substance of what Voris said so I can't comment. But I am disturbed by the Bishops comments and walk away with the thought that he does not have both oars in the water.
Actually, "TTC," St. Athanasius appears to have appointed bishops and completely ignored his Pope. One can only go so far in insisting on obedience, as the present institutional Church does, without substance.
How can an institution that despises its own noble and sacred history, that rejects continuity of its doctrines, that places in power people like cardinal Dolan, Wuerl, Baldisseri, Kasper, Marx, and Archbishops like Cupich and so many others who operate as apologists of the world and who reject the Faith by their example, and that insists on adoration of its ambiguity-filled pastoral council, warrant the continued devotion of its members? We are the victims of a true revolution. The present power-holders are taking what they hope are the final steps to consolidating their hold on the institutional church, and its members, by introducing heresy as mere "doctrine".
We do not need to wait until October for the public announcement of this fact, as the Church is already victim to it. How else to explain the near universal screams of outrage when a bishop, priest, religious, or lay person merely says the words of scripture, or of the Catechism about things such as abortion, contraception, fornication, and homosexual sex? Just look at the unjustified reaction to the simple words of Bishop Huonder (Chur, Switzerland), who, unfortunately, recanted and apologized.
Of course, the SSPX should be within the Church, and Abp. Schneider stated this. However, the good Archbishop also had the better view: that the SSPX was worthy of being fully recognized by the Church "as they are," letting time work out the details. The real battle is not with the SSPX, it is with Satan, and with the many within the Church that do his bidding.
"Of course, the SSPX should be within the Church and Abp. Schneider stated this."
No. They actually should be excommunicated - just like the women who reject the Catechism and are simulating sacraments in Holiday Inn.
We'd like to see every Baptized Catholic within the Church but the fact of the matter is, people who reject the Catechism and have set up a parallel and counterfeit Church with our Crucifix should be cut loose.
There isn't a dimes worth of difference between them and women wearing vestments telling people they've been ordained. They are simply their polar opposite on the scale of heresy.
Again, I am upset that the Bishop gained our trust by talking the talk and is now luring people into believing there really isn't a weighty problem with SSPX. We needed this like we needed a hole in the head.
Every other group simulating sacraments is cut loose. We have pussyfooted around with SSPX enough. They are not going to assent to the Catechism and many people believe their sins are being absolved when they are not. God only knows how many invalid Confirmations and Marriages have been performed.
Rejecting the Catechism and simulating the Sacrament of Confession isn't a weighty problem for Bishop Schneider. Congratulations to him, he is now in the same category as Bishop Gumbleton.
Well, it is your blog site; but your comments, besides being wrong, contain little of value. The SSPX is not excommunicated, and should not be. (No, I am not, nor have ever been, a SSPX member, or assisted at one of their Masses.)
You ignore the long history of a Faith at times torn with controversy, if not heresy, and the people appointed by God to courageously confront a hostile Church leadership. The struggles of St. Athanasius are well documented; you should take a look. Many priests within the SSPX are ordained people of good will; many, many of the ordained within the institutional Catholic Church are not.
The Novus Ordo Mass is licit, but wrongly conceived; it deserves no place in the ongoing story of the Catholic Church. Catholic Tradition has survived for a reason. Not only Abp. Schneider struggles to maintain the Mass of All Times. Great current Catholics like Cardinal Burke also see the true value of the TLM.
Try to be a little more charitable to the SSPX. They do need to be reconciled to the Holy Father, and the Holy Father needs to listen to the Holy Ghost (as many popes in history have not). One problem with Michael Voris, and perhaps yourself, is recognition that a pope can be wrong, terribly so, and should be called, as appropriate. Catholics do not worship the Pope, who is, after all, a servant to the Church. We can glory, of course, in modern evidence of the power of the Holy Ghost, when He is observed: just look at a weak, and mis-guided modern Pontiff, Pope Paul VI, and his magnificent, Humanae Vitae. Perhaps Francis will do the right thing with Catholic Tradition, and with attempts to bring the SSPX into the Church. They are needed here.
I think Pope Benedict lifted the 'excommunication' but of course gave them 'no canonical status', which to me, opened the door for them to come back to Rome. He realized there were things to iron out with them that would take time, but still he must have seen at least an 'avenue' for them to return. It couldn't have been a hopeless situation to him, or he would never have opened the door by lifting the excommunication. And it looks as if they are at least WILLING to work with Rome, as they always have been in the past. That said, their appears to be CRUCIAL articles of the one true faith that they are totally in opposition to, so it looks like they are still at a brick wall. I say 'appears to be' because you read conflicting reports as to the teachings they adhere to and those they don't. I'm just wondering if they have as many problems as we do INSIDE the Church with everyone not at all on the same page with true Church teaching. Just noticing that there is now confusion EVERYWHERE both inside the Church and outside. Diabolical disorientation, I suspect.
Did you actually say that my problem may be that I don't recognize the Pope can be wrong? LOL. I don't know where you came from but you obviously did not bother to read any posts.
SSPX was needed. But they should have stayed and long ago assented to the Catechism, the contents of which contain no heresy. It is a simple concession and the Church will never agree to admit them into communion until they do.
This is where you are losing me:
People who defend SSPX can't seem to have an honest conversation about SSPX's heresy and simulation of Sacraments.
You cant just simply say, you're right. They reject the Catechism and are pretending they can absolve sins and perform marriages and that is no different than the women's ordination heretics. But these heretics are better than those heretics.
My point is, no they are not. One is much better off with the local loonietune who has the power to absolve your sins. Moreover, as others have stated above, there are numerous parishes that say the Latin Mass in the Church. Additionally, there are thousands of faithful priests in the Novus Ordo.
TLM, Diabolical disorientation is everywhere.
I don't know how many years passed since the excommunications were lifted but it seems to me their conduct got worse, not better. Every time I see faithful Catholics being intellectually dishonest about SSPX heresy and simulation of Sacraments, I think it's time to just cut them loose. Some of them -- perhaps hte majority of them will assent to the Catechism and return. That will help us grow stronger and more faithful.
i am still lol about the suggestion that my problem is I don't think a Pope can be wrong. That is a good one!
I'm more concerned with the activities of our coyote Pope (with all his worldly agendas) along with his posse of "missionaries of mercy" and Germanic bishops and Cardinals than SSPX or even wacko sedevacanists.
You said "At the end of the day, there is nothing in the watered-down catechism that changed doctrine. It is pablum but the substance did not change or contradict Catholic theology." How well do you really know your theology and doctrine? Not very well apparently.
Look at 2358 regarding homosexuality. Show me in sacred scripture or the magisterium where sacred tradition or the deposit of faith tells us "every sign of unjust discrimination should be avoided." This phrase has been used all over by liberal bishops and others to justify saying gays should be treated equally in the Catholic Church. That phrase was and is a fabrication. Sodomy was once punishable by jail time in the U.S. It's diabolically disordered behavior. It's one of the gravest mortal sins. That phrase certainly contradicts the deposit of faith and sacred scripture. I could go on with more examples. but will stop there.
I know theology and doctrine pretty well.
There is nothing heretical about saying unjust discrimination should be avoided.
What the bishops hijack for their twisted agendas has nothing to do with the deposit of faith and Catechism.
TTC.....well, I would never accuse you of 'not thinking a Pope could be wrong'. I've seen too many posts where you have called Francis out on whatever shenanigans he was up to at the moment, and there have been so MANY of those 'moments' it's hard to keep up with! But, all I know is that we all need to stay with Rome, it's IMPERATIVE that people stay 'in the boat'. Our Lord will work out the rest. As difficult as it is and will become we HAVE TO remember, He has our back!!! He is asking us to stick with the program and do our best, He KNOWS exactly what's going on.
Amen to that. All the boogery about SSPX being a potential option is sending people the wrong message.
Have a great day!
n.b. I cannot find any evidence that St. Athinasius appointed Bishops and I find that difficult to believe given he was a crusader for the faithful priesthood.
If anyone has historical affirmation, please link. No links to SSPX sites or propaganda please.
Carol, you've got that right - SSPX propaganda.
Do these priests and people not realize they are fighting against Christ and His Church, not to mention luring good people away from the Church?
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