There I'll be having a pleasant conversation with faithful Catholics and the next thing you know the beast arises out of the abyss to blow smoke up everyone's fanny and I just can't keep my mouth shut.
The kicker is, it can be the most innocuous conversation, like saying there are effects of sin upon a soul, a culture, a country - or in Scripture, the Woman delivers the Word Made Flesh and as the beast waits to devour Him, is in pursuit of Him and His followers, the Bible is a big old story from Genesis to Revelation about the pursuit.
Now who in their right mind would feel the need to spend hours of precious time explaining that these thoughts are akin to Joe Stalin and conspiracy theories and the culture has grown to a place where these ideas need reform?
The Pope's comments make sense if one is dealing with the issue as a pastor, who suggests prudence as the best way to engage the moral questions of the age. People often have a poor ability to comprehend their conscience; any pull to follow an element of the conscience is good, even if the objective good has not been met. This is exactly what Pope Benedict is working with in his comments, and what is said by the Vatican continues with this. There is no conspiracy to counter Benedict by the Vatican; there is, however, many people trying to keep a form of legalism in place and try to find ways to continue it. The Church has had a long history of such legalists-- if one studies history, one will note such legalists have often found themselves in schism (and often, heresy) -- they ignore mercy and grace and how that works on hardened hearts. Once again, I would recommend caution against legalism and the assumption of "my thoughts are true, and if I don't see what I expect, there must be a scandal and apostasy all around the Pope." Taking more authority on oneself than one has is dangerous, especially for those who think they know the faith, but when something goes beyond a simple presentation they see error in what is said. One must make distinctions, as St Thomas Aquinas was known to point out. So many confuse their interpretation of the Church's teaching to be the Church's teaching. This, again, is a way of self-deception where people are unwilling to learn and go forward and develop. Just like a Protestant with a Bible, so many Catholics, without proper understanding, demand their lack of understanding is "not my view, but the Church's." Your interpretation of them are not the same thing as being the teachings of Jesus' Church. Again, many people will say "see, I quote the Bible, therefore I am right. If you disagree with me, you disagree with God." No, because there is more to be done than merely quote verses. Texts out of context are pretext; texts taken out of context, without proper exegetical work, are not the same thing as God's truth. Again, explain to me what your lifting of verses and just using them and saying "see, it's not my opinion" differs from a Protestant following Sola Scriptura saying the same thing to reject the Pope?...One, there is not just "one interpretation" to Scripture, but many levels of meaning to it. There are erroneous interpretations, but there are many complementary valid interpretations, which the Church understands and mentions.
Two, again, we must not assume our interpretation of Scripture (or a Magisterial statement, or the comments of a saint, or even of someone else) are themselves necessarily correct. It is, again, often the case that those in error will quote saints, popes, and the like to validate their error, forgetting that heresy is the grasping of one truth in such a way that other aspects of the truth are neglected or rejected. The "this is true" does not mean our interpretation or use of it is true.
What difference does it make if God speaks in person or if he speaks through ministers, be these angels or men. 'But,' you may protest, 'men are often mistaken in their apprehension of what is God's will in cases of doubt, and so may lead us astray.' And what is that to you, who are more ignorant than they are?" St. Bernard of Clairvaux, On Precept and Dispensation, IX.21.
"Putting aside all private judgment, we should keep our minds prepared and ready to obey promptly and in all things the true spouse of Christ our Lord, our Holy Mother, the Ecclesiastical Church." St. Ignatius of Loyola, Spiritual Exercises, Rules for Thinking With the Church #1.
You continue to respond with non-sequiturs and lies. The fact that you are unable to appreciate:
1) Scripture has multiple meanings
2) That you jump from an interpretation of Scripture to "therefore I am correct" which is invalid and what heretics and schismatics have always done. "Oh, there is a battle" That was what Luther also said. No has denied this, what they have denied is what you come out of it "And this is what the battle means, this is what is going on, and look at me, I am right and everyone else is wrong!!!!! It's a conspiracy!" Seriously, get a grip....Is it me or is he saying there is no such thing as objective Truth and Jesus Christ's Church teaches It - only subjective opinions that can be trumped with other opinions when lying, conspiracy mongering Joe Stalins like me come along?
Jesus said we should look to ourselves. Looking to others to trumpet oneself is not a sound spiritual condition.
Is there another interpretation out there about the Woman giving birth to the Child and the beast lies waiting to devour us all?
If so, repeated attempts asking him to cite them fell upon deaf ears.
I swear, I was on my best behavior! (n.b. Does anybody know how many legs St. Josaphat had? Was he a little yellow fellow with an up-do? Anyone have a statue of him sitting in the lotus position? )
I'll tell you something, there is much less damage done to souls by people who are intellectually honest about their dissent.
Here is a living and breathing example of how to water down and mute consciences with intellectual tripe.
A long treatise on when a child is 'ensouled'.
What part of I knew you before you were born" and the Magnificat is getting lost in this tortured theology? God is the author and Creator of each and every life. God the Father knew the plans He had for Christ before Christ was created. He knew what Mary's life was going to be because she was created without original sin. The only human being to be created without original sin. Christ's life was planned out at least 17 years before God the Father would send Gabriel to ask Mary to carry Christ in her womb.
When the Virgin is conceived without sin, that tells you that she had a soul at conception.
The numbing of the intellects around us is frustrating and maddening all at the same time.
What kind of hogwash will people swallow when the most basic facts makes a treatise like this impossible?
John the Baptist was conceived with original sin but when he recognized Christ's presence while each of them were in their mother's wombs, his original sin was wiped out and so while he was born without original sin, he was conceived with it.
Common sense should tell you that the recepticle has to be there at conception when the rest of us received original sin but in Mary's case, the decision was made to spare her concupisence.
You have to get up pretty early in the morning to fool me!
Seriously, trowing around this kind of theological dung for people to read has serious consequences. Somebody reading it may find herself with an unexpected pregnancy and remember this rubbish and not only will that life end, the woman who commits the grave act against the life that God created will suffer the terrible consequences of this sin. Her life may spiral. She may never get her feet back on the ground. Her life may be wasted and she may die out of communion with God, her salvation in peril from all the things she did in the sick state of her mind and soul.
Here is a more concrete example of the reason I have zero tolerance for soul killers. A child who was given every teaching faithfully was exploited by people who wanted to give her alternative opinions to Truth on theology. This crept into many aspects of this beautiful soul's life until she fell into a moment of despair from the consequences of the traps people led her into with 'pastoral' approaches to theology.
People being 'pastoral' by omitting truth or watering it down so your feelings wont get hurt are actually keep you distanced from God. What is pasoral about letting you wallow in your sins where you may make a stupid mistake that you or others will pay for for the rest of your life? They make 'church' an attractive place by connecting their self-esteem and connections to the people in the pews or to the priest. They tell you that your sins are virtue as your life spirals away from God from the effects of sin.
Leading people away from truth with slick intellectual malarkey is a terrible offense against our brothers and sisters and more importantly, against God. I think it's worse than a "vocation" leading people into an alley and robbing them of their wallets, beating them and leaving them for dead. I have no tolerance for enabling this kind of spiritual homicide. I would like to say I wish I did but quite frankly, I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.
Still, I felt a little troubled that the conversation led me to have to say the things I had to say. I was trolling the internet looking for some spiritual reading when I saw Michael Voris' Vortex was on the virtue of prudence.
What a stroke of luck I thought to myself and settled down to be fed.
Have you seen it?
It's by far, the best Vortex he's done IMO....but it wasn't exactly what I was expecting.
Then, I came across Deal Hudson's piece on being divisive, then John Zmirak's piece on the condom kerfuffle....and finally Simcha put the frosting on the cake...
By the time I was done with all that, Karlson's offer to lend me his spiritual advisor and to adopt silence before I made any more of "an ass of myself " wasn't looking like something I was going to be taking him up on.
You can count this ass among the growing chorus of people who are saying if selling intellectual tripe to souls or leaving them inmmersed in the effects of sin is your idea of the Cardinal virtues, keep your stinkin virtues to yourself.
We can not stop fools and malcontents from twisting and misapplying them or using them as an excuse to not do or say the right thing but we can get off that train and start living up to our baptismal call.
My Saviour, He can move the mountains,
My God is Mighty to save,
He is Mighty to save.
Forever, Author of salvation,
He rose and conquered the grave,
Jesus conquered the grave.
Shine your light and let the whole world see,
We're singing for the glory of the risen King...Jesus
3 comments:
As usual Carol, you know how to get the blood boiling, even when you aren't trying. On this "condom issue", I contacted my friends at the National Catholic Bioethics Center and have posted their explanation on my Blog. Although they are very good at their job, as they told me, we are still waiting for the Pope to make the final definitive statement.
Jesus Is Lord!
Tim
The only quote you need to remember - Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
This is how I deal with the whole condom issue.
What does the Church teach?
artificial contraception in marriage is wrong, it's not open to life. Period.
Outside of marriage, there isn't a teaching, the act is immoral, it makes no sense to moralize immorality. (Nor should there be)
The Holy Father did not justify the use of condoms, nor did he violate any Church teaching.
If I'm not understanding what the Holy Father is talking about, it is me that is weak, not the Holy Father.
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