Thursday, March 10, 2011

Pope Says Conversion is a Bust

Say what?

This really frees us up to use the condoms in our spare time.

Happy Lent!

31 comments:

Jerry said...

"[Christianity] must not concern herself with the conversion of the Jews.”

That's tantamount to heresy.

Anonymous said...

Jerry,
You can imagine, I'm sure, what a comfort it is to know that you are more Catholic than the Pope and are ready, indeed eager, to protect us from his errors. Was it not you who earlier this year called the Pope a "filthy man" for insinuating the image of male prostitution into the phantasies of the faithful? Indeed, another sign of the End Times, no? -- the Abomination of Desolation standing in the Holy Place!

Anonymous said...

"More Catholic than the pope" - the last retort of obfuscators.

So you too (paul), say Jews don't have to convert to be saved? Shall I quote the de fide teachings here?

Jack O'Malley said...

I wonder what contortionist heremeneutics led Joseph Ratzinger the theologian to parse "Go ye and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost" as "Go ye and teach all nations but the one whom the Forerunner first called to baptism and repentance."

Or "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father but through Me" as "I am a way, a bit of the truth and a sort of life. And forget the Trinity, God is One. You don't need me."

Or "I come not to destroy the Law but to fulfill it" as "the Law is complete and sufficient in itself and is fulfilled in the Talmud not in me."

I can think of several Jews who are shaking their heads at the veiled heart of this perfidious pope, viz. Bernard Nathanson, Israel Eugenio Zolli, Edith Stein, to name but a few. May their souls and the souls of all the faithful departed rest in peace. Lux aeterna dona eis Domine.

I have heard a whisper in the loggia that Papa Ratzinger is polishing up his Irish brogue so he can do his John Dominic Crossan impersonation when CNN comes calling for a Good Friday interview about the resurrection allegory.

Jack O'Malley said...

Oops - "hermeneutics".

"Lucem aeternam".

I am orthographically and syntactically perfidious.

Jerry said...

"heremeneutics" - heresy hidden behind mental gymnastics. It was a fortuitous slip of the finger, Jack.

Jack O'Malley said...

LOL! Good one, Jerry. You are a lexical prestidigitator!

TheLastCatholicinBoston said...

Ah Jack, Jerry and anonymous - my three favorite Catholics!

Relax- Jews will come home to the Mother church when they are good and ready. The Pope knows this. I know a few Jews who have converted personally. From their witness 'soft' Catholicism was actually a hurdle to their conversion.

Balls and brains will make Jewish converts. Not fuzzy thinking and love, love, love sentiment. Unlike Islam they DO know God the Father.

$ 1000 says that Benedict has had more Jewish converts than 20+ years of JPII desire to embrace them ever had.

An American Catholic who is concerned about jewish conversion yet is not dialed into the fact of 50 million abortion since roe V wade would be better off buttoning their lips - its embarrassing.

...While I got Yoose...
My parish had a posting about a trip to Mejougorja for $2,500 complete with a stay at Ivan's home.

My smart Jewish friends think.
"Fella, you claim the Messiah is inside the Golden box on your alter, yet you'd spend good money traveling to the former Yugoslavia? For What?
Oi!, at least Miami is warm and civilized."

Carol McKinley said...

Oh dear, it seems my sarcasm was missed!

I don't see John Allen as a good fiath interpreter of what the Pope actually said in the context he said it. That's why I had a smart aleck reference to the condom condundrum!

I didn't have time to do my homework on it - and see what the story actually is. Hopefully somebody else is on it.

If anyone reading sees a good post on it - please link!

Anonymous said...

A quote from the article:

"Benedict says that in the early church, the urgency of evangelization wasn’t based so much on the idea that every human being had to know Christ in order to be saved, but rather on a “grand conception of history,” according to which the Gospel had to reach all the nations in order for the world to fulfill its destiny."

Is that so? Well now, too bad those stupid missionaries didn't know this - you know, like St. Isaac Jogues, St. Francis Xavier and many, many others. Think of all the pain, suffering and trouble they could have saved themselves. And that silly St. Isaac Jogues, he actually came back to this country for more torture just so that he could convert those whatever the politically correct term they like to be called these days is.

Did the pre Vatican II Church get anything right? Was the Holy Ghost slumbering for centuries? Must have been Avery Dulles and his ilk that woke him up.

And folks wonder why the SSPX and sedes are growing.

Sorry for the rant, but will this nonsense ever end?

Veronica

Anonymous said...

Carol,

That was funny what you wrote. I caught the sarcasm. Sarcastic humor is an east coast thing. That type of sarcasm is lost on the people out here who think you are serious.

Veronica

Restore-DC-Catholicism said...

I wouldn't trust anything from the National Catholic Distorter.

Carol McKinley said...

funny comments!


I read Allen's article and he's got too much paraphrasing and things out of context for me. He is a clever scandal-mongerer. Trust him as much as Joan Chittister.

"While the pope does not affirm a theory propounded by some theologians holding that the Jews will be saved independently of Christ, experts say,"


Period.

This is the Pope that lifted the restriction on the Tridentine Mass that includes the prayer the Jews be delivered from darkness and convert to Catholicism.

"he does clearly suggest the church should not be targeting Jews for conversion efforts."

We have bigger fish to fry.

We have the sedevacanists, the protestants to work on - not to mention non-believing Catholics.

This however.. isn't gelling:

“Israel is in the hands of God, who will save it ‘as a whole’ at the proper time, when the number of Gentiles is full,” the pope writes. The historical duration of this “proper time,” Benedict says, cannot be calculated."

Benedict says that in the early church, the urgency of evangelization wasn’t based so much on the idea that every human being had to know Christ in order to be saved, but rather on a “grand conception of history,” according to which the Gospel had to reach all the nations in order for the world to fulfill its destiny.

But...I catch up with him here:

Until God’s plan comes to fruition, Benedict says, the “particular task” of the disciples of Christ is to carry the faith to the Gentiles, not to the Jews.

I process JP2's writings a lot easier than Pope B's....

TheLastCatholicinBoston said...

Whoa,
Some of my best friends are sedevacanists! ...Ya go ahead tell me John Paul the first wasn't murdered.

I personally think Benedict rocks I see him as like JPII's big brother. A little smarter, a little stronger, just not quite as personable.

Jerry said...

John Allen comes from the left, but he's an honest reporter. He doesn't make up quotes. Besides, there's nothing to disbelieve here as we've heard it before, e.g., how the old covenant has never been revoked. After his prophy book, nothing from this pope would surprise me.

Anonymous said...

I was at a retreat with the Friars of the Immaculate some weeks back and I really trust their take on things. One of the Friars charitably addressed this type of things saying that it is said that some have said that Pope Benedict is causing confusion by writing as a Pope on one instance and as a private theologian on another. The Friar said that really if you are the Pope, you should stick to Papal things and leave your private books and theological musing behind. Otherwise you put yourself and the Church in a compromising situation and it causes much unnecessary confusion. I tend to agree with him.
God bless,
Adele

Jerry said...

Phil Lawler, a man I admired for his pro-life slogan years ago, "Don't take the soup," has just taken the soup. He has the audacity to write an article entitled Pope's book offers approach to conversion of Jews, that leads with the following sentence, "Pope Benedict XVI writes that Catholics should not seek the incorporation of the Jewish people into the Church." Not converting Jews is certainly a unique "approach to conversion of Jews," Phil!

What a terrible lack of charity for the Jews! How can they be saved unless they come to Jesus Christ? Benedict has to believe that even Jews must convert to Christ to be saved, because Our Lord prayed that Peter's faith would not fail. But it's very hard to see that Benedict believes. Oh, what a scandal for the Jews, for the sedevacantists, and for the Protestants who know better!

Jack O'Malley said...

Re the covenant of the Jews, despite the non-magisterial non-infallible non-ex-cathedra theologoumenon from its for-profit author, if I were Jewish, whom would I trust for the Truth? A latter day German Christian or the Jewish Founder and the Rock he appointed? The Way, the Truth, the Life. The power of binding and loosing. The keys of the Olam ha-Ba.

And too bad we didn't have a Ratzinger back in the 5-th century. Maybe he would not have targeted the Irish for conversion and we could have maintained our recreational approach to sex unimpeded with a lot of Jansenistic guilt. Fewer abused boys and girls too.

Then again we'd have no parade next weekend. On the plus side, we wouldn't have to endure the obnoxiously obstreperous Jack Hart and his rehashed breakfast bromides.

This year I propose that Andrea Cabral do a rendition of "Jack o' my Hart". Because it's over when the fat lady sings. At least Bulger had wit. I mean the unindicted Bulger. The one who quotes Euripides in Southie-accented Greek.

Personally, I think the Druidic Covenant is still valid. The Irish are in God's hands. They'd have to be. What with Satan's spawn still aprowl in Buckinham Palace.

Jerry said...

"Personally, I think the Druidic Covenant is still valid."

Ha! That's a good one, and it's true. They're holding the second parade one mile behind the real parade next Sunday. (If you stay, I'd recommend a pie tin in your pants and a clothespin on your nose.)

Anonymous said...

Adele

Nice to know that the Friars of the Immaculate agree with me! (ha! ha!)

Veronica

Anonymous said...

Haha, Veronica. The guy over at the Fifth Column agrees with you too then. Really interesting post over there at: http://skellmeyer.blogspot.com/2011/03/pope-benedict-spouts-more-private.html

Adele

Carol McKinley said...

You have no idea how many times I will be in a retail store, on a train or some other public place - and when I read your posts with a big grin on my face...trying to stifle laughter!

Very, very entertaining you all are!

BTW Jack, there's hardly a post of yours that I don't need the dictionary for at least one word. Your vocabulary rocks.

:)

Carol McKinley said...

re: the Pope's book


Jews, condoms, etc. -- here's what's puzzling..

When you are the Pope, why on earth would you write a book with theological perspectives that you say, right at the outset, do not and may not be Church teaching but personal opinion?

If there's something in there so compelling, that you feel must be taught, but then other things you know are controversial - wouldn't you have the book published after your death?

When you're the Pope, if you're going to spend time writing something, don't you make it pass the muster of Church teaching?


So if we're in a room full of muslims, gays, protestants,apostates, (and of course whenever I think of apostates I think of) bishops, and whatever have you - we respond to our baptismal call. But if we are in a room full of Jews, and and a situation arises where we should respond to our baptismal call to witness - we repress that call.

Does't pass the sense litmus test as for this Catholic -- but I don't see it as a sin to unburden myself of the duty and put my efforts into something else. That's all I care about!

Jerry said...

This gets worse. Pope Benedict believes the Church has misunderstood it's mission until now (link):

‘In this regard, the question of Israel’s mission has always been present in the background. We realize today with horror how many misunderstandings with grave consequences have weighed down our history. Yet a new reflection can acknowledge that the beginnings of a correct understanding have always been there, waiting to be rediscovered, however deep the shadows.’ (p.44).

Horrifying consequences, eh? Like when they hung Our Lord from a tree? Sad to say, horrifying aptly describes this papacy.

Jack O'Malley said...

You're right, Carol, Ratzinger is sowing confusion. He said before his election that he had wanted to retire and write. So now he writes anyway. He was once under suspicion of heresy. Maybe he will be again.

Both he and JP2 were great synagogue pewsitters. Maybe he should take a page from JP2's book and just publicly kiss a Talmud. To give JP2 his due, at least the Coran honors the Blessed Virgin.

This does put a severe dent in my Lenten resolution to hang around the local temple on Saturday nights handing out flyers with Cardinal O'Malley's smiling mug over a "Jews Come Home Already" caption.

BTW, re the vocab (and thanks for the compliment) -- my wife gives me a list of three words every day and says "use each of these in a sentence." I get dessert if I can fit 'em all in one sentence! :-)

Jerry said...

Please check the spam buffer, if you dare :)

Carol McKinley said...

Jack,

Tell your wife we are also beneficiaries of her work to enlighten -- and we are most grateful!

Jerry - maybe he meant the 'social justice' crowd?

You know every day from sunrise to sunset, I get myself into situations where I am not happy with my response to a situation or person. I can't imagine being under the microscope. Popes are human. Some have more savvy and discretion than others. Pope Benedict is not in the same league as JPII but JPII also has more than his share of blunders.

If a chance to explain a teaching opens up with the Jew - I'm taking it -- just like I would everyone else. Meanwhile, we have bigger fish to fry, do we not?

:O)

Jerry said...

The fish are frying, alright. When the pope excludes a segment of the population from the Gospel, what's to prevent a cardinal from excluding all the children in his archdiocese?

Carol McKinley said...

Jerry,

The archbishop of Boston is a prop for the mission of the archdiocese: fundraising.

The salvation of children isn't on the man's mind. It is over!

Anonymous said...

"The archbishop of Boston is a prop for the mission of the archdiocese: fundraising.

The salvation of children isn't on the man's mind. It is over!"

We got a fundraiser bishop too. Just what our diocese needed - a good administrator. What we needed was a Catholic.

Everyone is saved no matter who or what, even atheists. So, with that all wrapped up and hell being empty anyway (as someone told me the other day, the Church NEVER said anyone was there), we will concentrate of more important things...like the Columbia River Basin and its effects on the environment.

Joseph D'Hippolito said...

To give JP2 his due, at least the Coran honors the Blessed Virgin.

So what? Islam is a religion of ritualistic murder, or have you been asleep since 9//11/01? Any Catholic -- and I mean any Catholic, including John Paul "the Great" (Fraud) -- who trucks with it will be called into account by A Higher Authority.

The archbishop of Boston is a prop for the mission of the archdiocese: fundraising.

Substitute "pastor" and "parish" for "archbishop of Boston" and "archdiocese" and you have the exact same situation at my former church.