Then she said that the decision about Medjugorje is scheduled for this coming November, 2012. We knew it would be before the end of the year. This is more precise.
Very interesting.
Anyone know where the 'before the end of the year' came from?
I bounced this off a most reasonable, faithful friend, and he said that this absolutely means without any doubt whatsoever that the decision about Medjugorje will be negative. He said no decision can be made positively about any apparitions while they are ongoing. Since the apparitions are continuous, daily, non-stop, this means that the only possible decision will be that the apparitions are not consonant with anything supernatural, or something even more negative than that, but nothing positive, except maybe to say some nice things about conversions that have taken place there, etc., trying to save any good that could have taken place just because so many people were involved from all over the world.
Of course much good has taken place from 30 years of an assembly where Mary's children gather to pray, ask for her intercession, protection, guidance? No matter where people of good will assemble to seek her, she responds. She responds to you, the people gathered around you, the grace from all of it is palpable. But, whether the people claiming Mary is appearing to them daily is an authentic apparition, that is a mutually-exclusive issue. The two shouldn't be confused.
No matter what happens, the devil will have a field day claiming the Holy See hates the Blessed Mother, women, etc. They are careful with apparitions. I kinda know the feeling.
The confirmations Mary has historically sent to affirm authenticity have been in abstentia for 30 years.
There has always been a pointed message or messages. They are disclosed right away. The recipient of the message is given explicit and complicated theology to give to the local priest, bishop, pope, which he or she could not possibly know given his or her education and resources. Roses in the dead of winter evolve into miraculous tilmas as the skepticism continues. I believe (please chime in if I'm mistaken) every recipient of an authentic message went on to devote themselves to a vocation in religious life. Etc.
The messages Mary is purportedly giving at Medjugorge have lacked substance for 30 years.
All circus, no elephants.
All mouth and trousers.
Big hat, no cattle.
All fur coat, no knickers.
If true the hammer is coming down, it will be interesting to watch the reaction of the recipients of the messages. If it were me and they were really happening, well, I wouldn't be out in public making a circus of it in the first place - but if I were silly enough to believe the devil couldn't fool me and I was, all this time, really seeing something and not faking it for money - I'd be excusing myself to the fata morgana, moseying on to the best priest in the area who is familiar with the wiles of the devil and arming myself with tools and devotions. Practice them 24/7. Fast. Pray in front of the Eucharist. Apologize profusely and direct people to the Holy See, Fatima - etc. - so as to not cause scandal, derision or hostility.
I have a feeling in my gut poop it isn't going to go that way, but pray I'm wrong.
NB: Excellent reading here.
13 comments:
There are a lot of willful folks who are heavily invested emotionally in Medjugorge. I expect that some will use a negative Vatican decision to apostatize. Others will have a strong reaction akin to those who occupy closed parishes. Most will adapt and "Won't get fooled again"....
Those foolish enough to have invested so much time in the messages of this cult will agonize over their lack of true faith. But maybe the fruits of this could be a turnaround in faith - a greater faith and devotion in Fatima and possibly a more humble faith in the Church herself.
Oooooooh, wait... faith in the Church herself!!
Catholics are easily distracted?
YOUR going to have egg and worse all over your face when the Holy SEE affirms the great fruit of Medjorie. 30 million people don't go if nothing is happening. millions of conversions, vocations prayer groups etc..
The 70,000 who witnessed the miracle of the sun at fatima didn't wait for the Church to approve it. they showed up caused they believed. There are many errant bishops. are we supposed to follow all they say? Fruit is what Jesus said to look for. Satan does not produce conversions.
"Anyone know where the 'before the end of the year' came from?"
Medjugorje Commission to Present Final Report by End of 2012
Conversions to what! How does one get past this one; Question to Vicka: "Is the Blessed Mother calling all people on earth to be Catholic?"
Vicka: "No! The Blessed Mother says all religions are dear to her and her Son. She says it is we on earth who have made division."
(Page 119, The Visions of the Children, Connell)
I ask again- to what is this apparition calling people to?
Thanks Vincenzo. Very interesting. I wondered though if they meant reporting their findings to the Pope but not publicly. As I'm sure you're aware, the reason the Holy See doesn't announce authenticity prior to the ending of an apparition is because they would be approving everything said in the future. There have already been theological errors in the messages at Medjugogre - which makes such an announcement impossible - but even if had not been, as a general procedure that rubber stamps anything any of these folks say in the future. That is just not going to happen. If their intention was to convey they will publicly announce, this definitely seals the verdict.
Anon, I don't mind having egg on my face. I invite you to be the first person to come here and throw them. Egg on face is a good exercise for the soul. Please know that the situation pains me.
This needs to be said: The conversions DO NOT hinge on authenticity.
Let me explain the reasons why.
A person who wants to relax and go on vacation, who is not thinking about or looking for spirituality, packs a good book, a bathing suit and a cover up and heads to Cape Cod or Hawaii.
Medjugorge is not a vacation resort like Hawaii or Cape Cod where unsuspecting people are having miraculous conversions out of the blue.
If seers showed up at Castle Island and delivered a message from the Blessed Mother - and all the people who set out for the day to get an ice cream as Sullivans fell on their knees in conversion, that would be a little different.
People who go to Medjugorge are not planning a secular trip with the protestant knitting club or high school friends. The plans they made are not to get a tan, see the ocean, have their toes done.
Colpitts is not recruiting for Medjugorge. It's not on their list of tropical resorts.
If a person takes time off to go Medjugorge, they already were connected to Church, to prayerful Marian Catholics. They most likely were already involved in the prayer groups that organize these trips. These prayer groups are devoted to Mary and the Rosary. If an unsuspecting person has been invited, encouraged, a person or persons in that prayer group have already been working on conversion of that person.
Rather than organize trips to have the toes done of the unsuspecting person, they are invited to prayer groups where hundreds of Marian Catholics are praying, singing, worshiping, praising. They are invited to valid Masses.
The tenor and zeal of our faith, prayers, the spiritual power of our Masses - those things are the conduit of the conversions.
If the prayer group took that unsuspecting person to Fatima or the Holy Land - or any other Catholic locus, conversions are the natural fruit of the itinerary and people gathered and prayer and Holy Sacrifices.
It is not the seers at Medjugorge who are the conduit for the conversions. The seers and the validity of their messages are separate issue. Completely.
Carol
Anon - thanks for posting some of the errors. They were sloppy at first but have since learned to keep the messages ambiguous.
I would urge anyone who is discerning to read the Crisis Magazine article linked in my post.
http://www.crisismagazine.com/2012/the-devil-and-medjugorje
When a lady doctor asked if she could touch her also, the Gospa agreed, but complained about “unbelieving Judases.”
Fr. René Laurentin, a supporter of Medjugorje, in his Chronological Corpus of the Messages, changed this obvious blooper to “doubting Thomases.”
In the first few years following the apparitions, around thirty different apparition places were chosen, with the Gospa appearing often as if “on cue.” Some of the messages, even in our open-minded era, would be categorized as not just heterodox, but heretical. We hear that all religions are equal (“Before God all the faiths are identical. God governs them like a king in his kingdom.”) All sufferings are equal in hell; and Mirjana quotes the Gospa as telling her that people begin feeling comfortable in hell. As regards the afterlife, those who go to heaven after death “are present with the soul and the body.” When the Madonna is asked about the title, “Mediatrix of all graces,” she replies, “I do not dispose of all graces.”
another good article here:
http://catholiclight.stblogs.org/archives/2010/03/the-deviations-of-medjugorje.html
and here:
http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2008-0930-allesio-vatican_disciplines_exspiritual.htm
another:
http://www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/articles/medjugor.html
"Keep your religion to yourself"
The absolute antithesis of 'go out and baptize all nations', our baptismal promises and Christ's Incarnation, ministry, suffering and death and His instructions.
IMO, with the exception of the sin, the devil is not involved as he is more clever than this. From what I have seen, heard, read, it is my opinion that these folks are feigning it on their own. They learned they were out of their league theologically and have tailored the messages to be fluffernutter no-brainer observations about the general state of sin in the world and the instructions to pray. Way too low level intellectually to be the manifestation of the devil in the apparitions.
What is the status of Garabandal? I never heard, but see a lot of that floating around. How about the image of the Blessed mother on the side of the building in Clearwater, Florida? I did happen to see that when I was there. Oh I know I can look them up :) Just wondered if and what you have heard, Carol.
Okay, looked them up. Looks like Garabandal is in about the same status as Medjugorge. Except with no looming decision. And the bank in Clearwater was vandalized.
I visited Medjugorje in the early 90s because a friend wanted to go and we were already in Ireland. So we joined a group of Irish pilgrims. I didn't see any of the "signs and wonders" so many report, but I told the Blessed Mother I didn't need any. It was already becoming very commercial and the government was backing off its opposition. After all, why kill the golden goose? I'm with the retired excorcist. http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=7452
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