Tuesday, April 1, 2014

Why Michael Voris Could Be Right...

I couldn't begin to describe the brute force of unhinged comments coming from the sedevacanist/SSPX crowd relative to my post expressing reservations about Steve's post.

Something wicked all right.

I have been honest over the course of the past few weeks out of concerns for those with fragile faith who are being sucked into the sedevacanist chatter. My original thoughts were, if I could speak honestly about the confusion within my family and network of friends, our experiences with the battleaxes and apostates rising up to seize and imprison what is left of catechesis all around us - while being a public witness to my inability to be led from Christ's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and Sacraments, I could do some good. Save some poor slob from being sucked into the vortex.

My experiences over the last 24 hours with the encampment of papal malcontents really has me reconsidering. Hey, I don't shy away from being called names - or even accused of being the devil (I'm in good company with Pope Francis!) - but the behavior is so over the top there is something extraordinary in the supernatural world attacking this Pope.

Frankly, the high-pitched hysteria and despair coming from the people in the encampment is so deafening, I:

a) don't think there is any efficacy in the attempt to be a jackass whisperer.

b) am really starting to think this Pope is facing such hurricane force winds, I would be doing much better service to Christ by doubling up on my prayers for His Vicar.

I came to this conclusion, not just because of the diabolical stuff around my attempts to dissuade people from going the sedevacanist route, but in reading the comments on Steve's post.

For example:

Deacon>>>>>30 March, 2014 at 7:55 am
Thanks for stopping short of concluding that Pope Francis is the antichrist.

I think this comment was said in sincerity, but this comment says Steve's post skidded right up to that conclusion but did not express it.

Thanks never entered my mind.

>>>>>> 29 March, 2014 at 5:01 pm
Steve, thank you so much for your excellent piece, full of invaluable information and discernment. I’ve also had many apocalyptic dreams and feel every single day the same thing you felt when the new pope was elected, since I felt it myself as well. There is no doubt in my mind and heart that this man is the False Prophet.

Thanks for the excellent piece leaving no doubt in my mind the pope is the false prophet. What a service to my soul.

>>>>> 30 March, 2014 at 2:54 am
calling Kasper’s theology of giving remarried people communion ‘serene theology’ and praising it…yeah that’s a false prophet. That’s only one out of a millions horrible things this Pope has said.

There is much talk about a schism in Steve's post.

Congratulations on a balanced and calm piece on an emotional and fearsome topic. The Church–as you say, the solid Catholics–are definitely falling into two camps, and Francis is the continental divide.

Where most of these people are going to land is not the place I'm going or the place I wish any readers here to end up.

Please investigate the SSPX whose priests are recognized as valid priests by Rome but this order is split from Rome........Pope Benedict in February before he resigned, tried to get them back into Rome and no, .......I am still investigating. Only problem is I live in NYS and the nearest chapel is in Richfield, Connecticut.... not in full communion with Rome.

and this doozie:

>>>>>>31 March, 2014 at 12:13 am
he is not the Antichrist, but he is paving the way for him; he is the False Prophet.

Here's some poor sucker who is scandalized, reading and has come to just the right place to find words of wisdom to rip themselves away from communion with Christ's Church:

>>>>>>>29 March, 2014 at 12:23 pm
Just want to add that anyone that has any words of wisdom for me will be genuinely appreciated as I am on the verge of attending Mass at a sedevacantist chapel tomorrow morning just so I can have some peace and the Faith and a Mass that will lift me up and out of myself instead of dragging me through the mire......There are two churches in reality, which is an impossibility. But one is True and the other an Imposter. Our souls are at stake. Those who remain in the new church of Novus Order will lose their faith.

Great balls of fire.

Here's the last one I'll cite, but there is plenty more where these came from:

>>>>>29 March, 2014 at 7:48 pm
Unfortunately, _______you don’t have your morality and principles straight. The fact is, a pope can become a heretic and automatically cease being pope. The Church said so. St. Bernard believed the final Antichrist would be a false pope whom the majority of the Catholics in the world would think was a true pope.

Oh yea, I think I read about that in fisheaters. They said he also flew to the moon on his pogo stick.


I do not wish to be any part of the machine that spits out this product!


Please, remember that Christ's Mystical Body is literally His Body. The devil cannot replace His Head. The gates of hell do not prevail against Christ's One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

There is a lot of stuff being taken out of context by people who do not know the context of saints writings and the theology behind it.

There is no such thing as 'making choices between the faith you know' and Christ's Deposit of Faith as it is bound. What is bound is your faith. Remember that the approved apparition of Fatima has us following our Pope.

Don't try to figure it all out or worry about it. It is not for us to know the when, where and how. It ends ugly in this life. We are martyred. This generation, the next or a hundred from now. Tomorrow. It doesn't matter. Live your life every day taking care of the people around you. Increase the Sacraments, Adoration, Prayers, Fasting. Do what you can to teach the truth in your world. Love the people around you.

When the end comes, there are people on the outside and people on the inside. Pope Francis is trying to increase the people on the inside. If they show up, embrace and love them.

Don't don't take any chance or follow any leads of anyone heading outside. Don't walk, run.

Good night!

He that hurteth, let him hurt still: and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is just, let him be justified still: and he that is holy, let him be sanctified still. [12] Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to every man according to his works. [13] I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. [14] Blessed are they that wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb: that they may have a right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city. [15] Without are dogs, and sorcerers, and unchaste, and murderers, and servers of idols, and every one that loveth and maketh a lie.


Netmilsmom said...

I don't believe that Pope Francis is the anti-Christ, the false prophet or any kind of evil, but before you go all Voris on us, please remember a couple things.

1.Nowadays, people have a lot of time of their hands. They go from blog to blog spouting the same bile. They are easy to spot.

2.Voris has been smacked down by his Bishop once, he didn't want it again. I like him sometimes, but his life is CMTV. That leads one to be excessively protective. He and many other bloggers started this "I'm not going there" just before the smackdown of the blogger from "Protect the Pope" it rolled quickly through many of the big blogs. No one wants to be shut down by one's Bishop and it looks like the word got around.

3. Pope Francis has some awful handlers who let his words cause confusion and division. They are to blame. Number One is the English Translator who I feel is a Progressive with an agenda.

3. Division is not schism, very few will walk to schism. The number of people who read American blogs is tiny compared to the amount of Catholics. More Catholics are in danger of being lead astray to sin by the MSM than the SSPX

4. The gates of hell do not prevail against Christ's One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, true. But while the gates of hell are trying, we can lose tons of souls. The Church will still prevail with a couple followers and the Pope. She will come back, but many souls are lost meantime. Your blog has been wonderful about an even evaluation of the situation and I feel kept many souls here where they should be. Some people need hard evaluation to sort it out. Any Pope is a man who has his own ideas and while he can't go against dogma, he can cause scandal, even if it's something stupid. If people see this and have no one to say yeah, that's strange but doesn't really affect The Church, they will head over to the well known nearly schismatic sites for their information. This is a problem.

5. The world HAS gone weird. The solution is to Consecrate, Pray and Confess. I think that was the main takeaway from Steve's Post. You said it "Increase the Sacraments, Adoration, Prayers, Fasting"
Don't change because of this. We need you.

Steve Dalton said...

I've never considered sedevacanism, because Christ said he would build his Church on "this Rock" that the gates of hell wouldn't prevail. I've noticed over the years that all the sede groups are very small, isolated, and never grow in numbers. Over time they shrink, they're dead branches.
However, it's the fault of the leadership that the sede's are gaining traction. If the leadership have been supplying what we needed all along, the sede's wouldn't even be noticed. Instead, our hierarchy ridicules faithful Catholics with such words as 'rosary counters,garbage like this plays into the hands of the sede's. We need to pray for the Holy Father, but we also need to let our Pope know that we sheep are sick and tired of being sheared by the wolves he send us to be our shepherds. He needs to hear us baaa so loud, that even if he's a bad, or indifferent Pope, he will send us good priests so he will not have to hear us baaa.
I no longer watch Michael Voris. I believe he's a part of the Opus Dei network in this country. Those people are very cultic in their behavior. Voris in his videos last month was demanding blind obedience to the Pope. He said no public criticism write a letter. As a former cult member, I recognize cultic behavior. Everything I've learned about Opus Dei so far points to them being a cult within the Church. Interestingly enough, I've learned that Opus Dei clergy despise clergy and laity who are not in the OD, and they offer blind obedience to the Pope. However, non-OD clergy are fair game for public criticism. Interestingly enough, that's the group Voris is always attacking. Is he really attacking them for their heresies and bad behaviors, or is he doing it to aid Opus Dei to increase their power? You may think this is a wild speculation, but remember, Voris's RCTV was financed by an Opus Dei member, and one of his favorite priests is Fr. Nicholson, an OD member. So if you're going to support Voris, read up on the OD. www.odan.org/index.htm is a good place to start.

Martina Katholik said...

How exactly is Pope Francis “trying to increase the people on the inside” when he is saying things like this:

Pope Francis said, "Do you need to convince the other to become Catholic? No, no, no!
Go out and meet him, he is your brother. This is enough. Go out and help him and Jesus will do the rest.”

Video with the message above here:

JB said...

TTC nice post and I agree with most of it but no I don't think Voris's take is correct. The pope needs charitable criticism because he confuses so many Catholics. He just came out and condemned those "anesthetized" Catholics who lack "apostolic zeal" but who go to Mass every sunday. At the same time, he tells us that Catholics who try to "prosletyze" are crazy too.

He's just too hard to follow. I will pray that his communications become more clear because at this point I find him very off putting.

TTC said...


Thanks for your thoughts.

You are so dead on about this:

"Some people need hard evaluation to sort it out."

I am praying about how to keep dialogue open, am praying about it and have some ideas. I don't get much sede chatter here, but I am a bit freaked out by the intensity of the diabolical rage when defending the Pope from being caricatured as the false prophet or antichrist. It wasn't human, there are principalities involved and if they are after the Pope with this much veracity, he has incredible power they want to see stopped.

The whole thing was an episode out of St. Catherine Emmerich's visions!

I'm going to talk about the things he's saying, but focus on helping people to better see his plan. Please let me know what you think!

Steve, I meant to write this to you before and time got away from me. No way Opus Dei is controlling Michael. Are you kidding me? They would never let him carry on about the bishops and priests. I don't know this for sure, but my gut instincts are, they did attempt to shut him up and rather than do so, he cut ties to people who wanted him to do so. Good people, but they are pining for the good old days that are never coming back.

I think Voris just doesn't want to interfere with Pope Francis' plan. After being in the rabbit hole, I need to change course myself. I have some ideas and look forward to your input and thoughts.

Martina - I saw that and am going to write a post about it. It is his game plan for the state of affairs. He is saying it's time to really practice our faith and draw people in over the fevered pitch of antiCatholicism and bigotry. I look forward to your thoughts on the post.

JB, I couldn't be any more with ya. I think we better try harder. That's where I am with it today!

(In all my years of public ministry, I probably have only experienced the demons circling my wagon like they did yesterday - two or three times. I don't flinch - but I'm seasoned enough to know if they're that active, something big is going down. I've learned through experience you've got to keep your ear low to the ground of the lying because that's where the clues to their game plan are -- and then outsmart them. I don't want anything to do with aiding and abetting their despair.)

kingsmill said...

I'm not going sede or SSPX, and I have no discernment regarding private revelations. But I will not adopt the Mike Voris approach of full frontal attack on the hierarchy and a big wet kiss to anything deemed "Francis". The hierarchy have been following the "Francis plan" long before Francis. There is no plan. It's all about keeping out of the line of fire coming from the powers and principalities. This blog has been great on issues involving the RCAB. I'll check back in for those postings. Thanks.

TTC said...

Thanks Kingsmill.

I'm not going to adopt keeping out of the line of fire either. I just think the people on the fence are unstable and I want to be more careful about how I approach our little problem!

Steve Dalton said...

Carol, the average Opus Dei clergy and laity hold Non-Opus Dei people in contempt. They think they're the only real Catholics out there. I've just started to read about the OD, and frankly, their attitude toward outsiders strikes me as elitist and cultic.
Voris's public behavior toward the bishop's and priests reflects what the Opus Dei thinks privately about Non-Opus Dei clergy. His attitude about putting Francis above any public criticism reflects what I consider the papolatry of the OD. Nope, even if Michael isn't a member of OD, his associations and attitudes show signs of OD influence.

Christine said...

Steve Dalton--Could you stop already with this Opus Dei nonsense? That rumor has no basis in truth. Opus Dei doesn't even like him, and have never had any control or say in CMTV's direction.

If you want to criticize the apostolate, at least make sure your criticisms are based in reality and not on far-flung conspiracy theories. Sheesh.

TTC said...


Honestly, I'd be careful about reading stuff from cranks on the internet. There's no question they have a spirituality they promote (personal journey) and they are deliberate about ruffling the feathers of heirarchy. They like to be seated at the tables of swanky events with Bishops and the Bishops hold them over the barrel to rein in criticism or whistleblowing.

The overwhelming majority of folks in OD are kinda like you and I. Sick of dissent, need to be fed, they get nothing at their local parish and have excellent programs and resources available. I actually like them. I doubt (in fact know) they don't like what I'm doing. No way they would be supporting Michael!

Frankly, controlling whistleblowing with cashola is rampant throughout the Church. That, sadly, is not limited to OD. It's in every chancery, every apostolate that has Catholic employees or needs financial support.

That is why I LOL when Joseph suggested he would call the Chancery to boo-hoo about my response to his anonymous comment that every prelate is a pervert and consequently the abuse of human sexuality taking place on his matress is off limits to the Institution headed by the Holy Spirit.

I've left them with no strings to yank.

I'm pretty sure the people supporting Michael are on our team and bowing out of public criticism of the Pope is his own personal sprituality - and is out of concern for the people who are unhinged and trying to recruit people sitting on the fence.

You had a terrible experience. I am sorry for it. The problem still exists but many (including Michael) are doing something about it.

Netmilsmom said...

" It wasn't human, there are principalities involved and if they are after the Pope with this much veracity, he has incredible power they want to see stopped. "

Okay, now I'm going to sound looney here, but I'm going to go for it. We've put tons of trust into our Consecration to Jesus through Mary and the St. Benedict Exorcism prayer. We had an incident recently where my 16yr old got an unhealthy obsession with a tv show about demons. I honestly didn't notice much but my younger daughter did. We renewed our consecration and through circumstances, this came to light. We took our Blessed salt and St. Benedict medals and said the exorcism prayer over the tv and computers. She saw that this had happened and is now feeling better.
You know all of these tools and will get the protection you need to handle these people.

The sede sights are seeing an opportunity and sending out their minions to post. If people do not have a place to go with your type of fair commentary, they will go with the minions. I feel that you are very wise to be honest and fair. I felt you were anyway, but I trust that you will do a great job forward. God Bless.

Restore-DC-Catholicism said...

Christine, please don't be so quick to dismiss what Steve Dalton has to say about Opus Dei. While it's true that the rank-and-file member is most likely a sincere, committed Catholic, the problems lie within the leadership and the control they exert over their membership. I commend to your review the web site of Opus Dei Awareness Network, www.odan.org. Run by Dianne DeNicola (with whom I've had the pleasure of corresponding), it is chock-full of first-hand accounts of thought-reform and other mental abuses. I have experienced these abuses and the sick psychological dynamics within the charismatic bunch with which I was embroiled for about 20 years. Of course at the time I didn't recognize them as such. Steve himself comes from a cult; both he and I can smell them a mile away. That's not because we're so brilliant, but only because we recognize the danger signs owing to our first-hand experiences.
As far as Opus Dei not liking him, they must have at one time! Else how can this be explained? http://restore-dc-catholicism.blogspot.com/2010/03/answer-according-to-real-catholic-tv.html

TTC said...

Good for you!!!

You don't have to preface your witness with 'this is going to sound crazy' here. Anyone who is reading here knows the power exists even if we only have faith the size of a mustard seed.

I'm pretty sure all of us here are consecrated and make frequent use of the sacramentals. Thank you for the reminder. I went for the Eucharist, the Lorica and holy oil and they all screwed. Thanks for your confidence. It's a group effort here. Thanks for your contributions!

Steve Dalton said...

Christine, even if Voris isn't an Opus Dei member, he acts like on in his bootlicking subservience to the Pope, in spite of Francis's ridiculing of faithful Catholics as being things like 'rosary counters'. I was taught this kind of toadyism as a cult member forty years ago, and I saw the horrifying results of this kind of bootlicking in the destroyed lives around me. Sorry lady, Michael Voris is a papolatrist. Btw, your silly whine that some OD folks don't like him carries no water with me. The evidence shows that he was 'liked' by Opus Dei member Brammer financing him for several years, and an Opus Dei priest, Fr. Nicholson, is a close friend of his.
Carol, go to www.odan.org/index.htm The information I've seen there rings true to me because of my cult experiences. The OD is a cult within our Church. Voris's associations with OD members and his strange cultic behavior of the last few weeks tells me he's not to be trusted.

Steve Dalton said...

RDCC, thanks for defending me against Christine De Niles ridiculous attack and backing me up about cultic experiences.
Christine is obviously a Voris team player. The lady needs to be a little more objective about her shining knight. Remember Mikey's video calling for a strong armed Catholic leader? Sounds like Opus Dei wrote the script for that Vortex!
Carol, I don't care for the patronizing attitude toward my cult experience. Yeah, I did have a terrible time, and I thought I walked away from it 30 years ago. Then, a month ago, I realized a Catholic layman that I trusted was acting like a cult member. Well, no wonder. He's been under the influence of and closely associated with OD people for years! As soon as I realized that, I walked away from Mike and his Opus Dei TV. I made the horrid mistake of putting myself under the malignant influence of one cult leader 40 years ago, I won't waste my life again supporting another!

TTC said...


Please accept my apology if what I said made you feel as though I was diminishing your experience.

And here I was thinking what I said confirmed the mentality of the cult is in every corner!

I don't blame you for being cautious. Frankly, I keep my distance from getting 'involved' in anything. I will attend events I feel I can get enrichment from - or share our journey of faith. But hooking into anything that attempts to steer the wheel -- other than the Deposit of Faith Itself and the Sacraments -- it is just not my cup of tea.

I understand you do not wish to support Michael -- but what I know about his relationship with OD, or lack thereof -- is exactly the opposite of what you suggest and I very much continue to support his magnificent apostolate.

Steve Dalton said...

Carol, OD is a shadowy, secretive organization. What do you really know about Mikey's real life and his actual relationship with OD? We know very little about Voris's past life, just some bare facts. If Voris was a private individual, it would be none of our business. However, he's a public figure, and we should know something about his background. I hope somebody who's not affiliated with Voris's business does some research on his life, because my hunch is his public image isn't the real Michael Voris.
Carol, he endorsed the OD publically four years ago, his major backer for years was an OD member, and an OD priest is a good buddy of his. In spite of what Christine Niles says, it's plain Mikey's on good terms with OD people. BTW, he doesn't have to be a member to advance their goals, Do you know the term fellow traveler? It's communist slang for someone who aid and advances the goals of the Party, without formal membership. Voris has given evidence that he approves of OD by his associations and recommendation. That smells of fellow traveler to me.

TTC said...


All I can tell you is I know for a fact that some members and supports who are OD members put pressure on Michael to stop going after the Bishops and he refused.

He is one of the few who has continued to go after corruption, misfeasance, malfeasance of bishops, priests. He's refused to back off when Mark Shea and thugs employed by EWTN went for his throat.

He's paid a great price but continues.

I think this kind of speculation to conclude he's afflicted with the mentality of the cult (contradicted by his entire apostolate exposing falsehoods and lies within the church) is getting into territory I am uncomfortable with.

I think you should follow your gut on whether you want to support him. I do continue to support him. (and, I do go to OD things and am enriched by their programs). I have no interest in joining and I'm pretty realistic about the fact they would not be interested in having me for a member. LOL.