The US may be getting a new Nuncio.
Since Sambi was proven to be worse than useless, this comes as good news.
As a friend remarked, we don't want to ne whistling past a graveyard with rose-colored glasses, but given our many campaigns that disclosed his ineptitude, we take this as good news.
Let him be promoted that he may be removed.
The Tenth Crusade
89 comments:
LOL. This could be great! O'Malley is closing six churhces in Boston. See:
http://youtu.be/-LOqGMk2mRQ
He is "de-sanctifying churches", says the videos. I'll say.
Funny. He managed to facilitate $ 15-20 million for the construction and renovation of St. Cecilia's though, the "Cathedral to Lustful Concupiscence. How very telling. Rich irony, indeed.
That's good news. St Cecilia can get some of that money and do some really nice things with it. $18M just doesn't stretch the way it used to.
Carol, where is this recording of Fr Unni's homily? Is it possible that it does not exist? Are you going there this Sunday?
Several recordings exist.
Never a dull moment here.
Veronica
Carol, Fr. John's homilies are inspiring. He preaches the true Gospel. My hope is that everyone can hear his words. It seems like you are afraid to post a recording least more people be inspired by him.
These are your words: "Somebody taped the homily. As soon as I receive it, we'll get it uploaded to the internet. I can't even get into the nightmare of the intercessions."
It seems you have bot received yet one of the many recordings. Petals you are not as well connected as you like us to believe or you are not true to your word. I hope you will post a link to a recording soon.
Abib 12:57
Will you please translate for me what you wrote: "Petals you are not..."
Is the word "petals" something you Bostonians use that the rest of us aren't aware of?
Thank you.
Veronica
Oh, God is good!
Here I write to "Abib" asking about the translation of the word "petals" making my own typo.
I have to laugh. Abib, feel free to join me, but I still want to know what "petals" means. I think you can figure out that "Abib" should read "Anon".
Veronica
"petals" was a typo. "perhaps" is more like it. My bad.
Thank you!
Veronica
Anonymous:
You are missing the point. This is not about one Mass, or one homily, or what "Unni" says, or does not say at one said "welcoming Mass". It is about a betrayal of the Catholic faith that has been going on now for decades, with the Jesuits at the helm of this tragedy. They do not care about the salvation of your soul.
You need to stop calling yourselves Catholic. There is nothing whatsoever that is Catholic about St. Ceclia's. Galatians 1:9 tells us:
"As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema".
"The most important thing the reader needs to remember about Dignity, New Ways, NACDLGM and other so-called “gay” Catholic ministries is that despite their religious trappings, these organizations are essentially political not religious. They are not “ministries” in the traditional sense of the word. Their objectives are ideological and political in nature and they are designed to extend and strengthen the hold of the Homosexual Collective on the Catholic Church in America and to secure its vast resources for their own ends.
“Gay” ministries transform parishes into political and propaganda cells for “gay” activism. They undermine authentic Church teachings on Faith and morals. (Randy Engel)".
We know homosexauls have infiltraEtd the Catholic Church, and religious orders, in an effort to transform our holy mysteries and the altar of God into a Sodom and Gommorrha. Those of us who believe in Christ's Church know that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. You are wasting your time here.
Maria, you really crack me up! Honestly, you are one funny lady (catching my breath here). Whew. Yes, the homosexuals are trying to take over the Church! Look out! For your information, this Church is run by homosexuals. St. Cecilia is indeed, Catholic and you shouldn't attack the good members of the Society of Jesus. They are powerful and might just track you down to teach you some manners.
I'm still waiting for the recording as promised by your good word so that all the world can hear it. If his words are so damaging the recording should only bolster your testimony all the more.
Just so we are clear, there is nothing Catholic about the practice of sodomy and the distribution of the Holy Eucharist to those who practice,and are enslaved by, the sin a sodomy; an act ,by the way, that the Catholic Church considers an act of grave depravity.
Maria, do you color your own hair?
Oh come on! Where's your sense of humor? You need to lighten up. We should meet for a drink next time you're in Boston. I bet there's a side to you just longing for exposure.
So, do you?
Maria,
This blog is begining to feel like the movie The Exorcist, and we are all taking our turns in the room with Regan. Don't bite!
Oh Karen! You do have a flair for the dramatic, don't you. The Exorcist? Really? I was thinking more like, "How Stella Got Her Groove Back." [I just love Taye Diggs]
Carol is strangely silent. I'm assuming she us unable to get access to the recording of Fr. John Unni's homily--brilliant that it was. All of us fornicators in Boston are looking forward to his words seeing the light of day.
Laugh all you want, Anonymous. Carol is on her way to the Apostolic Palace even now. She will have a lot to talk about over wiener schnitzel and Riesling.
Anon,
Oh come on! Where's your sense of humor!
Carol posted an update on the audio two posts down. Have a great weekend!
Karen, thanks for the FYI on recording. I missed that and have now checked it out. Glad to see techies are working on it. We can all agree we'd like to have his words see the light of day.
LWhen I am strangely silent I'm either at my day job or on a toot at some golf course, beach or having fun with friends and family -- or working behind the scenes on our covert operations! LOL
I'll post the update on the homily here also:
Re: The recording of the homily.
The sound was terrible on all the recordings and so the tecchies had to work the sound. It's as good as it's going to get now so it will be coming.
I'm waiting for Chuck Colbert's piece in the Rainbow Times. When his piece goes up, I'll link the homily with some commentary.
The reason being, I've been acquainted with Chuck for many years. Off and on through those years, we've talked about the teachings of the Catholic Church.
For those of you who are questioning the accuracy of my report on what Fr. Unni said - here's what Chuck Colbert had to say:
"By the way, I read your blog. I don't think it is accurate to say that he appeared to be getting ready to fly."
(He was most definitely overly dramatic and he moved his body around so his vestments would look look more like a caped superhero - but I plead guilty to hyberbole on my description of his silly antics)
"And as the recording bears witness, the homily was not interrupted with applause - only at the end."
(I thought I said the Liturgy was interrupted numerous times with applause which is very accurate - but if I said his homily was interrupted several times with applause, Chuck's criticism is valid)
"Otherwise, Id' say what you heard, I heard, too, but with a very different understanding."
Thus, what I reported Fr. Unni saying was heard by Chuck as well.
Chuck Colbert said the message he took home from Fr. Unni's words is different.
Another poster in the comments section said something like Fr. Unni's messages 'inspire'.
What exactly is it Fr. Unni inspires people to do is exactly the substance we need to get to.
Let's see what Chuck understood Fr. Unni's message to be and we can chat about it with a copy of the homily up at the same time.
Here was my response to Chuck - which can be food for thought for the future discussion...
Fr. Unni says things in such a way that it is impossible to draw the conclusion that gays must comply with moral teaching about chastity and celibacy or else they are offending God. I will be interested in your interpretation of Fr. Unni's message to all sitting there active in a relationship that imperils ones salvation.
I'm also interested in how Chuck feels about the ignorance of this important interpretation to the people coming and gong for years, some dying with this ignorance.
Because I am furious at what he has done and continues to do to souls.
Why Does America Have to be Re-Evangelized?
"America has to be re-evangelized because it has become de-Christianized. This is not my opinion. It is not even an opinion. It is a provable fact.
There are certain basic premises of Christianity which are easily identified. Even where a person is not professedly Catholic, there are principles of faith and norms of morality that those who profess to be Christians believe and put into practice.
A Christian believes in the existence of a personal God who is the Creator of the human race.
A Christian believes that God became man is the person of Jesus Christ. Thus Christmas Day is the birthday of Christ, the Son of the Virgin Mary; and Good Friday is the commemoration of His death by crucifixion on Calvary. Easter Sunday is the feast of Christ’s resurrection from the dead.
A Christian believes there are certain moral laws that are divinely binding on all human beings; that pre-marital relations are fornication, and extra-marital sexual activity is adultery. A Christian believes that marital relations between husband and wife are sacred and that artificial birth control is a sin. A CHRISTIAN BELIEVES THAT TWO MEN OR TWO WOMEN IS SODOMY AND A CRIME THAT CHARACTERIZED THE PAGAN NATIONS OF ANTIQUITY AND DESTROYED THEIR CIVILIZATIONS.* A Christian believes that the willful destruction of unborn human life is murder and abominable in the eyes of God.
A Christian believes that marriage is a lifetime commitment and that divorce with remarriage is forbidden by Jesus Christ. Even among Christians who were not Catholic, marital instability was frowned upon and an embarrassment to Protestants. For Catholics there was never any question of a “temporary” marriage or of a “part time” commitment to one’s marriage vows.
A Christian welcomed children and Christian families were sizeable and the population growing and our schools flourishing.
Something drastic happened. Every one of the features identified as typical of a Christian civilization is, to say the least, under trial.
Our Holy Father in speaking to the bishops from Western countries is telling them in the plainest possible words that their people need to be re-evangelized. And I believe I know the Pope’s mind well enough to say that he also believes the United States needs to be re-Christianized".
Father John Hardon SJ
Servant of God
* But, you all know better.
Carol, I was there and the Liturgy was NOT interrupted numerous times with applause. There was applause following the homily and there was applause at the end for the choir. That is hardly numerous times. You really make it sound like there was applause after the Psalm and at the elevations, etc. I would say that there was no applause after the Creed, but then again....there was no Creed. If I had to criticize anything from that Mass, it would be the lack of a Creed. Why do so many of your followers pick on the dumb stuff (woman in an alb) and neglect what's truly important...like NO CREED?
So, were you golfing?
ps - I'm going to try being more vigilant about deleting Fr. Unni's obscene and nasty gargoyles.
Post theology, philosophy in response - but let's try deleting instead of donnybrooking once we're satisfied a point has been adequately addressed.
See how it goes...
There was applause for Unni. There was applause for the Jesuits. There was applause for the chorus. There was applause for at least two or three other things.
That makes it numerous times, any way you slice it. Given applause doesn't belong at the Mass, it was all offensive.
Working - but golfing tomorrow, so don't let your imagination run away with itself!
"They were short on people to give out Communion, so Fr. Unni walked by all the priests in the Sanctuary (6 or 7?) and asked her?"
There were actually 3 priests in addition to Fr Unni, not 6 or 7.
"I'm not buying she was an altar server - frankly. There were several children who were altar servers whom I believe came down the aisle with the procession. I did not see her, nor did I see her processing out. To the best of my knowledge, she just showed up with all the other lay people who gave out Communion, none of whom were wearing an alb."
She was indeed an altar server and she processed in behind the candle bearers and she also processed out. Just because you didn't see her doesn't mean it didn't happen. Believe me, she wasn't sitting out in a pew dressed in an alb and then just waltzed up to the sanctuary. Nor did she go into the sacristy during the Sign of Peace and put on an alb. She was up there the entire time. We try to do liturgy well and follow the rubrics. You make it sound so crazy, Carol, and it simply wasn't.
I hope you'll come back and take a better look at how things are done.
So, why haven't you written about the one valid liturgical abuse that is concerning -- the omission of the Creed. Carol, don't major in the minors...leave that to Maria and Jack. There is a real problem with omitting the Creed from the Sunday Liturgy.
The faithful, whether religious or lay, who are authorized as extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist can distribute Communion ONLY WHEN THERE IS NO PRIEST, DEACON OR ACOLYTE, when the priest is impeded by illness or advanced age, or when the number of the faithful going to Communion is so large as to make the celebration of Mass excessively long.[20] Accordingly, a reprehensible attitude is shown by those priests who, though present at the celebration, refrain from distributing Communion and leave this task to the laity.
Inaestimabile Donum
Because liturgical abuse is so rampant, so widespread and so vin ordinaire, people err in their understanding.
"Petals you are not as well connected as you like us to believe or you are not true to your word."
Connected to WHOM and WHAT?!
LOL.
I'm connected to people in the pews, most of whom have nothing but zeal for the House of the Lord. Some of them have money, some of them influential. But it's driven by motivating people in the pews to connect with the luminaries.
I remember once one of our good Bishops telling me he wished I was in his diocese, because he knew exactly how to use warriors for the good of Christ's Church. He was lamenting on what a waste it was to have me in Boston with an impotent Cardinal. There are a few in Rome who know exactly why Christ raises warriors and are supportive and bemused.
In short, I assure you, most would prefer to hang up when I connect with them. LOL.
This is definitely NOT an apostolate of the beautiful people!
18. There are, of course, various roles that women can perform in the liturgical assembly: these include reading the Word of God and proclaiming the intentions of the Prayer of the Faithful. WOMEN ARE NOT, HOWEVER, PERMITTED TO ACT AS ALTAR SERVERS.[27]
Inaestimabile Donum
Whaaaatt? No Creed? Big shock there. Of course not. One cannot profess Roman Catholic beliefs when one does not share them. The Unnitarians have no intention of professing the faith of the Universal Church. Unni is a separatist. I am appaled am saddened by this.
There were four that I counted - and two more in clerical garb sitting in the pews.
I think the point is, she wasn't needed at all. The priests sat down.
I usually bow when the cross passes me and say the prayer that one says to obtain an indulgence when said as the processional Cross of an archdiocese goes by. "By the I cannot attest to whether she crossed my path during this prayer - but I don't remember seeing her and would have to take you at your word.
The entire thing was a despicable show about Unni and the people who came to clap for themselves. Saying the Creed is the antithesis of what is going on in that place.
We'll be sending people back - he's going to be under the microscope, I assure you. Right now, there's a bigger picture we are working on.
Maria, first of all, the correct term for lay people who distribute the Eucharist is extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion NOT extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist. Sigh.
Secondly, from the point of view of liturgical law, an official interpretation of Canon 230, Paragraph 2, of the Code of Canon Law led to a 1994 letter from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments clarifying that girls and women may serve at the altar. But bishops are not bound to permit them to do so, nor could the episcopal conference limit the bishop’s faculty to decide for himself. So, contrary to your older source, women are indeed permitted to act as altar servers.
"You make it sound so crazy, Carol, and it simply wasn't"
It was the craziest thing I have ever witnessed in the 54 years of worshiping in Boston -- and that is some litmus test because I have seen some whacky things!
"There were four that I counted - and two more in clerical garb sitting in the pews." What sort of clerical garb? A chasuble? A cassock? Surely you don't mean an alb, because every good Catholic knows that an alb is not clerical garb, which is why Holy Mother Church has pronounced that lay ministers should wear the alb rather than the cassock. So, tell us...what type of clerical garb were these lay people wearing?
There was a cross bearer in an alb, there were two candle bearers who were not in fact serving at that Mass, so they were in jackets and ties and they sat in pews, there was this older lady and there was a ten year old girl. That's what happened. In the procession there were also three readers, one carrying the Book of the Gospels.
So, what is this bigger picture you are working on?
Look, you keep wanting to put a kibosh on the fact that the woman stood out like a sore thumb among the little children. As a mother, a big red flag goes up.
Did you ever have a 19 year old with no friends his own age in your community come around way too often to play with your kids?
Something is not right about it. It bears watching, IMHO.
It's different in a Latin rite - or when adults serve a Bishop or a Cardinal -- but at a Novus Ordo where it's all little children -- I'm sorry to say the way it looks to me. That is a whole separate issue than having her take the helm of giving out Communion while the ordained wimps whimper back to sit down.
We don't publicly publish our blueprints on the work we are doing under the radar.
Why would we give them a heads up? LOL.
True. There are always adult servers at the 11:00 Mass. The children serve at 9:30 and then go to class. And at 6:00 p.m., there are (gasp!) college students who serve. I'm sorry if your particular suburban view doesn't match the realities of this parish or even this Archdiocese or the Church in general. I know you want lots of little boys in cassocks and surplices serving at all five Sunday Masses, but it's not happening and it doesn't have to happen. A little knowledge...
I don't have a problem with teenage boys or even college age boys serving - or young men. I would prefer boys, I think it unwise to use girls (and that took a long time for me to understand) but girl altar servers don't get me in a tizzy. It's foolish because altar serving is an opportunity for grooming priests - something girls will never be.
As an FYI.
I've been parish hopping for years and actually been around quite a bit. The number of times I saw a big growed up person serving with altar boys and girls is zero. I've seen men helping at daily Mass when the children are in school - and there is nobody to help -- but they don't wear an alb or process in.
Big boys and girls lector or do some other adult ministry.
I'm sure she's a lovely woman and I am not making any judgments upon her - but as a parent, I am observing that there is something socially retarded about it and I would keep a safe distance. I am the cautious type but my kids made it into adulthood safely and it was worth it.
Inaestimabile Donum provided instruction which our American Bishops (what else?) ignored. Thus, people were erroneously led to believe that altar girls were allowed, carte blanche,which indeed, they were not.
The Code of Canon Law did change in 1983. Still, altar "servers" ( and will you be having dessert,yuk) still serve at the discretion of a Bishop.
In light of the fact that females cannot aspire to the priesthood, it is absurd to have either girls or post menopausal women, on the altar; however, in my humnle opinion, this practice reflects the general "diabolical disorientation" in the Church to which we are all sadly subjected.
AND--you are NOT sure she's a lovely woman. But I am here to tell you that she is and it's offensive that you are suggesting that she has a dark agenda. You know, if you stayed on topic and tried to address the important and real issues in some of these parishes, people might take you more seriously. Don't get off on crazy tangents.
How about pre-menopausal women? Would that meet with your approval?
I left your comments about the character of the woman are important - as you know her. But your invalidation of somebody else's feelings about the way it looked are off the reservation.
The reasons why having four priests sitting a few feet from the Altar makes moot having to ask her to dress up in an alb and give out Communion. A 72 Altar server is inappropriate.
Let's agree to disagree on this and move on. I agree the posts calling her a sea hag are out of line and will delete them.
Carol, tell me again why this girl's parents should show more caution before letting their child serve on the altar with an adult (post-menopausal as Maria loves to say) altar server. You assume the worst about your fellow believers. Very sad. Jesus would be so unhappy about the members of his Church treating each other this way. Try reading the Acts of the Apostles of Saint Paul.
No woman or man for that matter above college age should be serving in a children's ministry. Too much water over the damn.
They can lector. Many times, lector will assist a priest at the Altar if there is nobody around. You cross train them. Then, there is no scandal. This is what is done both in the suburbs and in Boston and across the US.
Many a priest during the week do everything themselves and we can still get in and out in 35 minutes. St. Francis Chapel 30 or less sometimes. Let us cut the baloney.
Maria, the troll is doing all he can to get you upset. Just appreciate that you burn his conscience and say a prayer for him, however short. There's no need to quote documents. What good did that ever do when trying to rationalize with some wacky priest? Nadda. It will have even less effect on a troll. God bless.
And, Carol, she didn't "dress up in an alb" to give out communion. Our extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion do not wear albs. She was dressed in an alb because she was an altar server. She helped distribute communion because some priest asked her to. Simple. If you have an issue with the fact that there were priests not distributing communion (and I might agree with you on that), blame the priests involved...not her! She didn't take over...she merely did what she was asked to do. If there is fault here, it is the fault of the priests, not her.
I'll tell you one more time - and that will be the end of it.
Why should a ministry designed to foster vocations be focused on recruiting young boys -- and be limited to children?
Because children don't want to play with 72 year old strangers and they therefore will not come forward to serve in a ministry that is Divinely inspired. She is an obstacle.
Further, there is something socially skewed about somebody who wants to be an altar girl at 72 years old.
Lastly, Altar boys and girls do not give out Communion. The priest saying the Mass would walk by the altar boys and girls and ask one of the priests sitting their touche two feet from him. The story doesn't gel.
"No woman or man for that matter above college age should be serving in a children's ministry. Too much water over the damn."
Well, that's where you're wrong. It is NOT a children's ministry. Find me some document that says that altar serving is properly reserved to children. Perhaps Maria can get on this. We traditionally have children do this on Sundays but it is not particular to children.
"They can lector. Many times, lector will assist a priest at the Altar if there is nobody around. You cross train them. Then, there is no scandal. This is what is done both in the suburbs and in Boston and across the US."
So, you think it scandalizes the faithful to see a woman serving at Mass? Interesting. Liturgically, it is entirely INAPPROPRIATE to have lectors serving. The liturgical ideal is that you perform one ministry. You don't have the server get up and read and then serve and then distribute communion. In fact, I would agree that she should not have been distributing communion, solely because she was already performing one function during the liturgy.
"Many a priest during the week do everything themselves and we can still get in and out in 35 minutes. St. Francis Chapel 30 or less sometimes. Let us cut the baloney."
It's not about the priest not being able to do it all himself. Certainly you could have the priest doing all the readings, the Prayer of the Faithful, distributing communion...but that is not the liturgical ideal. You'd rather have the priest receiving the gifts alone than have an older woman helping him. Okay.
"Because children don't want to play with 72 year old strangers and they therefore will not come forward to serve in a ministry that is Divinely inspired. She is an obstacle."
Funny...that little girl who served the day you were there had no problem whatsoever with it. In fact, she asked of her own free will if she could serve. She must be a very strange little girl.
"Lastly, Altar boys and girls do not give out Communion. The priest saying the Mass would walk by the altar boys and girls and ask one of the priests sitting their touche two feet from him. The story doesn't gel."
What "story?" You have no problem criticizing Fr. Unni so why do you doubt what I am telling you. Do you not believe that she was asked to distribute communion? You may not understand why Fr. Unni did what he did (and perhaps I don't understand it either), but I do know that that woman just did what she was asked to do.
"Further, there is something socially skewed about somebody who wants to be an altar girl at 72 years old."
How judgemental. 'Socially skewed' - according to you. Well, who made you the judge of all things? We look for adult altar servers to assist at certain Masses. Do you suggest that we say that people who are post-menopausal are not eligible? Who do you think you are?
Some will. Most won't. Those are the facts about children. Same reason why men seldom volunteer in a parish anymore.
You seem to completely miss the purpose of 'altar servers' in the Divine plan.
The ideal situation is to have a deacon or another priest. The next ideal is to have one or two boys serving. Beyond that, it begins to deteriorate. It is perfectly acceptable to make due with a situation that is not ideal - if you are keeping up with readings this week, you know that. But, not a 72 year old woman in an alb with numerous priests and clerics sitting by - at the most sacrilegious abuse of the Sacred and Holy Sacrifice of Christ's Body in 30 years.
Tell me, are the women still baking the bread and using spices and honey? I'd like to know if what I received was the Blessed Sacrament or whether the entire Sacrifice was invalid.
And like it or not...it obviously is not a ministry designed to foster vocations any longer. If it were, why would it be open to girls? I know...it shouldn't be. But it is. And it's not because St. Cecilia Parish is breaking some rule...that's the way it is almost everywhere. Go to any cathedral with the Ordinary presiding (I know...YOU don't like that word, but it's used in the GIRM) and you will find altar girls. So, it comes down to Carol McKinley not liking it. Well, like Fr. Unni, perhaps you should start your own church and you can be the pope. I might agree with you that women should not be ordained. I say that because I shudder to think what the Church would be like with priests like you.
A 72 year old altar girl being inappropriate isn't a personal judgment - these are universal social skills to act your age and know your boundaries. Even if you lack the intuition to know that your presence may be keeping young men from being attracted to and serving in the ministry that is designed to foster vocations.
What a stupid question. Did you receive communion? Was it a host?
And why do you keep saying, "in an alb?" What's the deal with that. As someone pointed out...an alb is a garment for the baptized. Nothing clerical about it.
When the bread used for Eucharist is baked by parishioners, it is legitimate. That's to say, flour and water.
Ha. Maybe it's time for transgender servers. You wouldn't want to exclude anyone now, would you?
This is all a hoot. Need I give a reason why I won't go to the Novus Ordo unless under penalty of death?
We are all hate mongers. That is the political MO, right? We are not buying it anymore. Sell it somewhere else. In case you were not aware, people who have been loyal to the teachings of the Church, altar servers not withstanding, have been persecuted since Christ died on Calvary. There is always a price to pay for proclaiming the truth. Nothing new. Hate me all you want.
Is there some reason you all never have the fortitude to sign your name?
This is all a hoot. Need I give a reason why I won't go to the Novus Ordo unless under penalty of death?
Jerry: roflm arse off! It is a nightmare, that is for sure.
Hey Jerry...you think you're so clever. Well, there are transgendered altar servers. And you'd never know it. Now what do you want to say?
Carol, with all due respect. People like Jerry are just offensive. Are there parishioners at St Cecilia who are transgendered? Yes. And they are involved...in liturgical ministries and in social outreach. Pick on them all you want, but it's not the Christian thing to do.
I did receive Communion but I was very skeptical as St. Cecilias has a verified history of having the 'nice women who just want to be helpful' bake the bread with spices and honey - which invalidates the Sacrifice. I think there's even a picture on the website of leavened bread the golden girls baked.
Most others who were there did not receive -they went to another Mass.
It's hard to fathom that anyone could receive a typical host and wonder if there was honey in it. So, for the record, it was a host....not homemade.
And, just so you know...bread made with more than flour and water renders the Mass illicit but NOT invalid.
Here's what I can tell you -- I certainly want whoever is having sex with whoever, whoever is lying, cheating, stealing, coveting, pilfering, killing - to be welcome at Mass.
So does everyone else. We want our teachings taught to us in ways that 'inspire' us to go to confession should we offend God and 'inspire' us amend our lives. We want people who are confused or oppose teachings to sit quietly and learn the wisdom of the Church - like the rest of us did. Or leave, like some of us did with the prayer that we will return like the prodigal sons and daughters. Most of us did that too.
But to scandalize others by foisting celebrations of immorality and licentiousness in Catechesis or our Mass? This we can't tolerate and won't tolerate.
You've got to know your place.
The picture you are referring to is of bread made according to liturgical norms. Flour and water. It might appear leavened, but if so, it might be from naturally sparkling water. But no honey, spices, molasses, etc.
As long as you persist in a discussion of an alb, we don't really have to focus on the real crime here, do we: celebration of sin, which cries out to God for, well you know, on the altar of God. Out of genuine concern for the souls of those caught up in St. Cecilia's, I wondered: does St. Cecilia's have confession? Well, it seems that there are notices for those with celia disease, a rather long notice on the "Child Abuse Prevention Team" and a welcome for Welcome, Mayor Menino! But, surprise, surprise, no sheduled Confession. I qoute from your bulltetin:
Reconciliation
By appointment at any time and Wednesday evenings from 6:30—8:00 during Advent and Lent.
You have to make an appointment! Wow. Or wait till Advent or Lent.
You want to know why? Renegade Jesuits, of which there are many, don't believe in orginal sin. They don't believe that Christ insituted the Sacaraments. They don't believe in the Real Presence. When I tell you your soul is imperiled, don't take my word for it. If you can still find a priest, anywhere in the city of Boston, who still believes the Gospelm and in the Church that Christ founded, ask him. They will tell you that this is so.
It definitely invalidates the Eucharist - makes the rest of the Mass illicit.
I did not profane the Eucharist by putting Him in my hands. There are many processes which press invalid matter so that you are unable to tell.
The golden girls used to bake invalid matter and serve unnicrackers to the poor misguided people in the pews who didn't know any better.
I am glad to hear this is no longer the practice.
I'm putting comment moderation on. Have an early game.
Nighty nights kiddies.
No one is celebrating immorality and licentiousness. This is a church. And you want to make a group of people out to be villians. You should have stayed for lunch and talked to people. They would have been kind, friendly, and welcoming to you...because that's what civilized people do and that's what Jesus was like. You should have sat down and eaten with the sinners, Carol. If you model yourself after Christ, that's what you would have done. Did you? Perhaps you did...but I don't know.
Why don't you come back and go to a coffee hour? Maybe even bring some food to share?
The women were using honey and other invalid matter.
St. Paul warns in I Corinthians 11:26-30:
Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep.
In addition, because Communion is also a sign of Christian unity, those who receive are declaring to the world that they accept all of the dogmas of the Church. Canon 915 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law affirms the Apostolic practice of the Church in insisting that priests refuse Communion to those who are "manifest, obstinate, persistent sinners" -- i.e., those who are public sinners (which includes those who publicly disagree with Church teaching) who refuse to publicly repent -- lest they cause scandal and confuse others as to what Church teaching is. Those who disagree with what the Church teaches should not try to receive Communion.
Summary: one in grave sin is to police himself and refrain from receiving Communion until he's received the Sacrament of Penance. If he fails to, his spiritual father is to advise him in order to make him aware of his sin and of the added sin of receiving Communion while not in a state of grace. If, after being advised by his spiritual father, he still fails to police himself, he is to be prevented from receiving the Eucharist, especially if the grave sin is a public one.
Kind?
I did meet kind people. But there were vipers calling people "lunatics" -one man ripped a bulletin out of another's hand telling them to scram. Further, I was sitting between two bitches. There is plenty of venom at St. Cecilia's as you can read in these threads.
So again, let us cut the baloney.
With regard to the vituperative commentary from the, what else, anonymous commenters, keep in mind: sins against chastity lead to sins against charity. No surprise.
Carol, if the matter was indeed invalid an the Creed was skipped, I trust you have informed the proper authorities. Please let us know how we can help!
Joe
Maria,
Do you really avoid the novus ordo Mass?
Veronica
Hi Veronica,
I suspect you are reading Maria's comment where she quotes me saying that I avoid the N.O. Mass. I avoid it like the plague. Last time I went was Jan 1, 2010, while traveling. Before that I can't recall; it could be 10 years ago or more. Hence, I don't need to worry about girl altar boys, older women EMEs, transgender, transsexual, transsexual-reverted, or whatnot lectors, servers, or EMEs. Why folks put up with that nonsense is beyond me.
Jerry, I must have misread what she wrote.
Why I put up with the novus ordo is that my only other option at the moment is to sit home, and that I cannot do. It takes all I have to get through a Sunday Mass. I went a few times during the week but stopped since I came to the conclusion it was more trouble than it was worth.
God forgive me! Isn't that sad?
Veronica
Blessed Feast of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel to one and all!!
It takes all I have to get through a Sunday Mass.
Veronica: I know. I usually come away w/ a headache or sore muscles from contending w/ the abuse and /or noise. It is a trial to endure these things, but I see it as reparation for my sins and the sins of all. Some days I get a reprieve from the noise and I am so grateful on those days. I think that the Church is undergoing a kind of purgation of some kind, for all Her many sins over so many decades. It is hard to be faithful but, "Lord to whom shall we go"? There is only this one Church. Sometimes I like to think that by remaining silent and reverent I can model for others what our Lord wants to see.
Maria
Jerry: Have you stopped going to Mass altogether?
Maria
Maria,
I should have been more clear. I'll go to the N.O. as a last resort. I'm usually at the Latin Mass.
As a caveat, I wouldn't go to St. Cecilia's at all, nor many other parishes where they offend God. Sometimes you'll have to shop around. Find a reverent priest, sit in the back, kneel through huggy kissy time, and maybe go to communion if you think he'll let you receive on the tongue kneeling.
Maria, too true.
In my parish, there is a devotee of the alleged Bayside apparitions. Apparently, the "seer" told everyone that Our Lady told them to stay in their parish and give good example. Well, this dear older woman (she must be close to 80) has been trying to show "good example" at daily and Sunday Mass for about twenty-five years.
Only Our Lord knows how successful she has been.
Veronica
It's very normal in parishes in the Archdiocese of Boston for altar servers to wear albs, regardless of whether they are minors or adults, male or female. It's much more common that cassock and surplice, though I have seen minors of both sexes wear those when serving at the altar.
It should also be noted that the recent instruction from Rome, Universae Ecclesiae, requires in relevant part:
"The faithful who ask for the celebration of the forma extraordinaria must not in any way support or belong to groups which show themselves to be against the validity *or legitimacy* of the Holy Mass or the Sacraments celebrated in the forma ordinaria . . ." (emphasis added.)
Thanks Liam,
It is hard to sort through the comments to find the substance of the scandal but it is repeated throughout.
We know that wearing an alb is not in and of itself, a scandal.
The scandal was that all the priests sat down and as they sat down, the woman in the alb stood up and went down to give out Communion - thereby giving the illusion of clerical superiority to the woman wearing an alb.
Had she worn an alb in and out without the priests sitting down and without her walking to the priests proper pace, in her alb, and giving out Communion, there would not be a discussion nor a scandal.
The issue raised about a 72 year old woman attracted to being an altar girl raises concerns to me as a parent. Just as her showing up to a little league team saying she wants to join it would raise an eyebrow.
There are many, many ways to serve Christ's Church as an adult. But that complaint is, that the way she serves, it leads her to a position where the priests sit down and she takes their place with her alb on and it therefore raises suspicions that she knows exactly what she is doing and so does the priest.
I am hard pressed to find her wearing the alb and then taking the place in the Liturgy that belongs to priests innocent nor circumstantial.
Am I clear now?
It wasn't ignorance that wearing an alb is appropriate for altar servers. It was that altar servers do not give out Communion and as the priests sat down and she took their place in the Liturgy, the alb took on a different and scandalous context.
Let us dispense with wasting time with straw men, shall we?
God Bless!
Where't there also laymen distributing communion? To focus on her to the exclusion of them strikes me as odd. Also, many many parishes have Masses where there are no children as servers (as was the case at this mass; it's not a function reserved for children).
Liam, in light of your posting a quote about those questioning the legitimacy of the Novus Ordo, I should further clarify things I've said. First, I don't question the validity or legitimacy (legal standing) of the N.O. when offered according to Rome. But, along with Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci, I recognize that the N.O. "represents, both as a whole and in its details, a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as it was formulated" in the Council of Trent. In other words, it is a lesser liturgy and not of Divine origin. In addition, it makes me ill.
Jerry
Given your harping on how you hate the postconciliar liturgy, it would be prudent for you to expressly acknowledge its validity and legitimacy any time you are given to so venting, else you cause scandal.
Wow. The inquisition has arrived.
Is my position clear enough? Is there a form I should use? Or do you want me to footnote every scandalous venting of mine with such an acknowledgment? Should Unni-ites footnote their ventings with their submission to Catholic moral teaching?
Back to the subject matter that you swept under the rug with your accusation of scandal. You have no reply, I take it?
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