Is this the same psychopath "Anonymous" who has posted unrelentingly hammering the same discredited, many-times-refuted, point on the past few articles? What on earth is the brain-block for you, and do you seriously not have anything better to do with your time than to harrass good people? She is not defending Corapi; she is defending his right to not have judgements and invective thrown at him (or any other accused) before facts were known. Period. That is simple, common decency, and Gospel teaching. Period. Facts are coming in, and it certainly looks bad for Corapi. She (and most other people) have said as much, but the really beautiful thing about Carol is that she still isn't throwing invective...she's stepping up prayer for him, and encouraging that in others, in the hopes that a soul who helped so many come to God might not be lost himself. THAT'S what a Christian does...not the harrassment that you do. Get a clue and a life....you'll be better off for both.
But woe is me - the past few weeks I have come to realize that the worst "horrific scandal and stench" is emanating from the majority of Catholics. I wish I could convey to those here how, thanks to Fr. Corapi's enemies and the followers of Fr. Unni, I am utterly dismayed, demoralized and horrified at the depth of hate and malice in Catholics.
How did we ever get so vicious? Satan is having a field day.
"[A]ll other frenzies of the lusts which exceed the laws of nature, and are impious toward both [human] bodies and the sexes, we banish, not only from the threshold but also from all shelter of the Church, for they are not sins so much as monstrosities" (Modesty 4 [A.D. 220]).
I feel the same way that you do, and am utterly stunned at comments from Catholics here and elsewhere. It breaks my heart and I often wonder how we came to this point. Even though prophecy talked about these times, I am still incredulous that there is so much division within the Church. I guess that the rage that has been sitting just under the surface can no longer be contained in these days of 'do whatever feels good and we'll call it your freedom and your right.' That's why I am greatful for blogs like this one - they make me feel less alone and less crazy in seeing the absolute evil of the day. It reminds me that the 'small faithful remenant' are alive and well and here!
Oh no Veronica!...you're not a hypocrite. You're one of the warriors on this site! I agree with what you say; I'm just pointing out the dearth of reasoning and absolute lack of charity displayed by the one "Anonymous" who keeps berating Carol for exactly what she didn't do. People like that just like to rile other people up...they are the same people who populated and cheered in the stands of the colliseum when true blood-sport was the entertainment of the day. They betray Christ in their puposeful lack of charity, and hide falsely behind His name.
As you say, "satan is having a field day", but take great solace in the FACT that 'thus ever has it been'...from the very beginning Paul was trying to stamp out herisies, heterodoxy, and uncharity...human nature remains human nature, no matter how high or how low the hemlines....in every age, Christ's true followers are called simply to remain faithful on the field.
and Hesketh... Wow, great quote. Really makes you hate that Tertullian went south in the end, eh? And like Corapi, he did so much good and wrote so well of the Church early on, that perhaps enough prayers went up for him in his day that final repentance was granted him, and a merciful judgement given him. A great reminder to pray for the fallen lions, and the fallen weasels alike...in the final analysis, only God knows the difference between the two, and upon whom His mercy (and justice) will rest.
As to Michael Voris...a warrior in the mold of his namesake.
God bless you, dear Karen! It is good to know that I am not alone in how I am feeling these days.
It is very hard for me to tell myself that only good can overcome evil and that I shouldn't sink to someone's else's level in vitriol when I feel like tearing them apart. I find my inner peace to be disturbed and can feel the heart and soul just withering. I feel helpless in knowing what to effectively DO other than what I am doing - praying.
You are right about the division which is worse than ever. How well I remember the day when everyone was simply...Catholic! Seems like a dream now. What good are we if we are all divided? There's a lot of truth to the phrase "Divide and Conquer". We are too busy fighting each other to do any truly effective and positive for souls.
St. Paul spoke a lot about these times and, I might add, he was absolutely correct.
Susan, I am presently reading the life of Martin Luther by Monsignor O'Hare. According to the book, Luther blamed the Dominican priest Tetzel for pushing him over the edge. Here is what the book says that Luther and his supporters did to Fr. Tetzel in return (see if all of this doesn't sound familiar):
"The campaign of lies, slander and calumny inaugurated and carried on unceasingly by Luther and his quarrelsome allies preyed upon the sensitive spirit of the gifted preacher, and gradually his helth gave way. Wounded by the rude and unchristian treatment he received at the hands of unscrupulous enemies, and deeply affected by the sight of the mischief which ad been wrought by the religious revolution he was the first to foresee, he retired to the pious seclusion of his monastery, where after a short while he died, not in disgrace, as his malefactors, allege, but from a broken heart due to the persecution he had suffered."
And this:
"It broke his [Fr. Tetzel] heart to be forced to see how the sincere champions of the old Church truths were left alone, were slandered, despised and misunderstood by their own party, while the mockers and revilers of the immutable doctrine won applause on all sides."
Veronica, As a fellow former NY'er and otherwise pit-bullish type-A personality, I understand how hard it is to remain of gentle tongue. It is part of my daily prayers to do so however, and I believe that the Holy Spirit has helped me find the right words when needed. We will all help each other stay on the straight and narrow path!
Amen to that, Karen! I'd give almost anything for a "gentle tongue" and also a charitable mind. The thoughts I have to beat down and attempt to drive out!! Some days, I just do not feel up to it, so weary I am of it all. Sometimes I wish St. Francis de Sales would come and visit me so he could tell me how he conquered his volatile temper and mouth! His biographers make it sound easy.
God have mercy on me! Anonymous wasn't wrong when he called me a hypocrite, and I tell Our Lord each and every time I approach Him for Holy Communion that the healthy have no need of a physician, but the sick do!
Veronica, For what it's worth, I have only seen honesty, not uncharitability, in your comments here. As for thoughts....I can only say that I have had more than my share of thoughts that I would rather not have and do my best to dismiss them ASAP. i'm not always successful. I am consumed by doubt in my ability to speak out for Jesus and His truths, which is why,at best, I am a commenter rather than a blogger. I always felt that for me, evangalizing was living God's word to the best of my ability. There have definitely been times in my life that I failed horribly at that! This new way of speaking out as witness to the truth frightens me because I fear calumny, detraction and being judgemental. I think that Satan plays to our weaknesses and fears to silence us - we all have them. That is why I believe we are all being led to each other by God to help us support each other through the epic battle that is now on. Don't give in to discouragement!
Not a thing (in the grand scheme of things) Veronica. But in the words of St. Paul, "Rejoice in the Lord always; again I say rejoice. Let all men know your forbearance."
Sometimes a good butt-kicking is called for (and indeed is a real Work of Mercy) as in the case of Fr. Unni, who is consistently leading the flock AWAY from God and the Truth of His Church. He makes up his own gospel, twisting the words and meaning of Scripture and ignoring Tradition, to fit his feelings and desires..it's called isogesis, and it is a form of idolatry.
There is great precedent for being a pious butt-kicker... St. Nicholas punched the heretic Arius in the face at the Council of Nicea... A heretic who led many away from the faith approached St. Polycarp once and asked him arrogantly, "Do you know who I am?" And St. (Father of the Church!!!) Polycarp replied, "Yes I know who you are; you're the firstborn of satan and a spawn of hell!"...
Yep...good precident set to butt-kick when it's deserved, and when the facts come to light and bear it out...it's called "admonishing the sinner" and it is a great Work of Mercy. It is an attempt to have the recipient recognize his objective sin and repent of it, rather than be comfortable in it and take others down with him. Sometimes it can be accomplished with a gentle whisper, sometimes it takes a roar, but it is never Charitable to let the rot of sin continue to fester in the dark...especially not in the dark corners of the Lord's House, where there should be no darkness at all. Shining the light on Unni is a good thing in that perhaps some will be awakened to the poison they've been fed at his hands. We pray for Unni, that he will repent and reform according to the teachings of the Church, but if he won't there should be a BIG consequence. St. Paul wrote to the Corinthians about an incestuous adulterer in their congregation that they had to kick him out and 'deliver him to satan'....for his own sake(!) as well as to prevent scandal and drift of the members. Later, when he had repented and quit the behavior, St. Paul was equally adamant with them saying that they had to take him back. He was saved because his butt had been kicked and he repented! Praise God!
The caveat here is, that a butt-kicking shouldn't occur unless the facts are known...in Unni's case, the facts are well known...he is leading people away from the Church as Christ estblished Her, and into his own 'assembly'. A good butt-kicking is called for, and this reaches up into the rafters of the Chancery. What did St. Augustine write about the floor of hell being paved with?... Thank God for blogs such as this that shine the crystalline light of Truth on scandal such as this. Keep up the GREAT work all you 'regulars' here...may God bless you!
And Veronica, I hope you didn't think that I was saying that you were somehow being uncharitable or hypocritical in any way...just the opposite! There is another "Anonymous" who never signs their name, who just likes to fly around like a gnat, biting and stinging with the only goal of inflicting irritation.
Veronica, It's a deal! And all the others here as well. Satan may try, and even succeed at confusing and discouraging me at times, but he can NEVER, by the grace of God, keep me from trying to achieve my goal of pleasing Our Lord, going to Heaven, and bringing as many souls with me as possible!
Susan, I know that you weren't referring to me, but one of the many "Anonymous" posters on the other thread did call us hypocrites. I am just acknowledging that I am one; the trouble with the "Anonymous" poster though is that he/she somehow fail to see his/her own hypocrisy, judgmentalism and lack of charity. As my husband says "If you want non-judgmental, go talk to a rock!"
I agree that there are people called to take others to task - like Carol - and rightly they should, but I am not one of them. My job, as far as I can ascertain (and please pray with me that Our Lord sends me an orthodox and deeply spiritual priest to direct me), is to pray and do penance and offer up my crosses, big and small, in atonement for my sins and the sins of all...Father, forgive us, we know not what we do!
Anon, I'm not trying to be presumptuous, so forgive me if I am wrong here, but.... The kind of anger & tenacity that you show here in order to get an apology from Carol is similar to that which I have seen many times in abuse survivors who feel reviolated when the accused is believed over the accuser. If that is your situation, I am sorry. That said, I have enough faith in Carol's integrity that she would apologize if she felt that she had called the accused the liar. I believe her when she says that she was calling the process 'bullsheet.' There is a new article at 'These Stone Walls' (linked here) that addresses the very subject of society's acceptability of priests being denied due process. No other group is denied due process, which I believe was Carol's point. I truly hope that you can come to accept this - not for Carol's sake, but for your own well being. The whole Corapi situation is a mess and has again shaken the faith of many. I pray that you find peace.
Thata boy. I love when you show the fruit of John Unni.
Oh, we get it now. The pastoral section of the GIRM. Where it tells the priest to throw an alb to post-menopausal women and sit down in the sanctuary to watch her give out communion to the clapping fornicators.
That is quite a dissertation on what Sean Omalley finds attractive. Do you think you are doing him any favors?
What is next from the Cardinal? Inviting marginalized teens who have premarital sex to clap and sing about it in the sanctuary?
You would be very surprised who is paying attention. Very.
The consensus among his peers is that he's lost his marbles. But truth be told, he has not been in possession of them for a very long time.
Anonymous said... Maria, I am quite certain that Fr. Hardon would not appreciate you picking on one of his confreres.
You are right. They are girlie men whose feelings are easliy hurt. Not like the goo old days when Jesuits were real men and they were liable to throw things at you in JUG. Mercy.
Likewise with the recording of Fr Unni's homily. Until we can hear it with our own ears, why should we believe what Carol has written? I have ears but I cannot hear.
32 comments:
“The smoke of Satan has entered the church, is around the altar,”----Pope Paul VI
Really....this guy is an idiot. Carol, you can do better than this.
Ha ha...my verification word is troli. :) One note much?
Yes I know, not a very pithy comment. Sorry, I am not awake yet.
Is this the same psychopath "Anonymous" who has posted unrelentingly hammering the same discredited, many-times-refuted, point on the past few articles?
What on earth is the brain-block for you, and do you seriously not have anything better to do with your time than to harrass good people?
She is not defending Corapi; she is defending his right to not have judgements and invective thrown at him (or any other accused) before facts were known. Period. That is simple, common decency, and Gospel teaching. Period.
Facts are coming in, and it certainly looks bad for Corapi. She (and most other people) have said as much, but the really beautiful thing about Carol is that she still isn't throwing invective...she's stepping up prayer for him, and encouraging that in others, in the hopes that a soul who helped so many come to God might not be lost himself. THAT'S what a Christian does...not the harrassment that you do.
Get a clue and a life....you'll be better off for both.
Susan, very well said.
But woe is me - the past few weeks I have come to realize that the worst "horrific scandal and stench" is emanating from the majority of Catholics. I wish I could convey to those here how, thanks to Fr. Corapi's enemies and the followers of Fr. Unni, I am utterly dismayed, demoralized and horrified at the depth of hate and malice in Catholics.
How did we ever get so vicious? Satan is having a field day.
Veronica the Hyprocrite
Tertullian
"[A]ll other frenzies of the lusts which exceed the laws of nature, and are impious toward both [human] bodies and the sexes, we banish, not only from the threshold but also from all shelter of the Church, for they are not sins so much as monstrosities" (Modesty 4 [A.D. 220]).
Veronica,
I feel the same way that you do, and am utterly stunned at comments from Catholics here and elsewhere. It breaks my heart and I often wonder how we came to this point. Even though prophecy talked about these times, I am still incredulous that there is so much division within the Church. I guess that the rage that has been sitting just under the surface can no longer be contained in these days of 'do whatever feels good and we'll call it your freedom and your right.' That's why I am greatful for blogs like this one - they make me feel less alone and less crazy in seeing the absolute evil of the day. It reminds me that the 'small faithful remenant' are alive and well and here!
Oh no Veronica!...you're not a hypocrite. You're one of the warriors on this site! I agree with what you say; I'm just pointing out the dearth of reasoning and absolute lack of charity displayed by the one "Anonymous" who keeps berating Carol for exactly what she didn't do. People like that just like to rile other people up...they are the same people who populated and cheered in the stands of the colliseum when true blood-sport was the entertainment of the day. They betray Christ in their puposeful lack of charity, and hide falsely behind His name.
As you say, "satan is having a field day", but take great solace in the FACT that 'thus ever has it been'...from the very beginning Paul was trying to stamp out herisies, heterodoxy, and uncharity...human nature remains human nature, no matter how high or how low the hemlines....in every age, Christ's true followers are called simply to remain faithful on the field.
and Hesketh...
Wow, great quote. Really makes you hate that Tertullian went south in the end, eh? And like Corapi, he did so much good and wrote so well of the Church early on, that perhaps enough prayers went up for him in his day that final repentance was granted him, and a merciful judgement given him. A great reminder to pray for the fallen lions, and the fallen weasels alike...in the final analysis, only God knows the difference between the two, and upon whom His mercy (and justice) will rest.
As to Michael Voris...a warrior in the mold of his namesake.
God bless you, dear Karen! It is good to know that I am not alone in how I am feeling these days.
It is very hard for me to tell myself that only good can overcome evil and that I shouldn't sink to someone's else's level in vitriol when I feel like tearing them apart. I find my inner peace to be disturbed and can feel the heart and soul just withering. I feel helpless in knowing what to effectively DO other than what I am doing - praying.
You are right about the division which is worse than ever. How well I remember the day when everyone was simply...Catholic! Seems like a dream now. What good are we if we are all divided? There's a lot of truth to the phrase "Divide and Conquer". We are too busy fighting each other to do any truly effective and positive for souls.
St. Paul spoke a lot about these times and, I might add, he was absolutely correct.
Veronica
Susan, I am presently reading the life of Martin Luther by Monsignor O'Hare. According to the book, Luther blamed the Dominican priest Tetzel for pushing him over the edge. Here is what the book says that Luther and his supporters did to Fr. Tetzel in return (see if all of this doesn't sound familiar):
"The campaign of lies, slander and calumny inaugurated and carried on unceasingly by Luther and his quarrelsome allies preyed upon the sensitive spirit of the gifted preacher, and gradually his helth gave way. Wounded by the rude and unchristian treatment he received at the hands of unscrupulous enemies, and deeply affected by the sight of the mischief which ad been wrought by the religious revolution he was the first to foresee, he retired to the pious seclusion of his monastery, where after a short while he died, not in disgrace, as his malefactors, allege, but from a broken heart due to the persecution he had suffered."
And this:
"It broke his [Fr. Tetzel] heart to be forced to see how the sincere champions of the old Church truths were left alone, were slandered, despised and misunderstood by their own party, while the mockers and revilers of the immutable doctrine won applause on all sides."
Has anything changed in 500 years?
Veronica
Veronica,
As a fellow former NY'er and otherwise pit-bullish type-A personality, I understand how hard it is to remain of gentle tongue. It is part of my daily prayers to do so however, and I believe that the Holy Spirit has helped me find the right words when needed. We will all help each other stay on the straight and narrow path!
Amen to that, Karen! I'd give almost anything for a "gentle tongue" and also a charitable mind. The thoughts I have to beat down and attempt to drive out!! Some days, I just do not feel up to it, so weary I am of it all. Sometimes I wish St. Francis de Sales would come and visit me so he could tell me how he conquered his volatile temper and mouth! His biographers make it sound easy.
God have mercy on me! Anonymous wasn't wrong when he called me a hypocrite, and I tell Our Lord each and every time I approach Him for Holy Communion that the healthy have no need of a physician, but the sick do!
Veronica
Veronica,
For what it's worth, I have only seen honesty, not uncharitability, in your comments here. As for thoughts....I can only say that I have had more than my share of thoughts that I would rather not have and do my best to dismiss them ASAP. i'm not always successful. I am consumed by doubt in my ability to speak out for Jesus and His truths, which is why,at best, I am a commenter rather than a blogger. I always felt that for me, evangalizing was living God's word to the best of my ability. There have definitely been times in my life that I failed horribly at that! This new way of speaking out as witness to the truth frightens me because I fear calumny, detraction and being judgemental. I think that Satan plays to our weaknesses and fears to silence us - we all have them. That is why I believe we are all being led to each other by God to help us support each other through the epic battle that is now on. Don't give in to discouragement!
Not a thing (in the grand scheme of things) Veronica. But in the words of St. Paul,
"Rejoice in the Lord always; again I say rejoice. Let all men know your forbearance."
Sometimes a good butt-kicking is called for (and indeed is a real Work of Mercy) as in the case of Fr. Unni, who is consistently leading the flock AWAY from God and the Truth of His Church. He makes up his own gospel, twisting the words and meaning of Scripture and ignoring Tradition, to fit his feelings and desires..it's called isogesis, and it is a form of idolatry.
There is great precedent for being a pious butt-kicker...
St. Nicholas punched the heretic Arius in the face at the Council of Nicea...
A heretic who led many away from the faith approached St. Polycarp once and asked him arrogantly, "Do you know who I am?" And St. (Father of the Church!!!) Polycarp replied, "Yes I know who you are; you're the firstborn of satan and a spawn of hell!"...
Yep...good precident set to butt-kick when it's deserved, and when the facts come to light and bear it out...it's called "admonishing the sinner" and it is a great Work of Mercy. It is an attempt to have the recipient recognize his objective sin and repent of it, rather than be comfortable in it and take others down with him. Sometimes it can be accomplished with a gentle whisper, sometimes it takes a roar, but it is never Charitable to let the rot of sin continue to fester in the dark...especially not in the dark corners of the Lord's House, where there should be no darkness
at all.
Shining the light on Unni is a good thing in that perhaps some will be awakened to the poison they've been fed at his hands. We pray for Unni, that he will repent and reform according to the teachings of the Church, but if he won't there should be a BIG consequence. St. Paul wrote to the Corinthians about an incestuous adulterer in their congregation that they had to kick him out and 'deliver him to satan'....for his own sake(!) as well as to prevent scandal and drift of the members. Later, when he had repented and quit the behavior, St. Paul was equally adamant with them saying that they had to take him back. He was saved because his butt had been kicked and he repented! Praise God!
The caveat here is, that a butt-kicking shouldn't occur unless the facts are known...in Unni's case, the facts are well known...he is leading people away from the Church as Christ estblished Her, and into his own 'assembly'. A good butt-kicking is called for, and this reaches up into the rafters of the Chancery. What did St. Augustine write about the floor of hell being paved with?...
Thank God for blogs such as this that shine the crystalline light of Truth on scandal such as this. Keep up the GREAT work all you 'regulars' here...may God bless you!
And Veronica, I hope you didn't think that I was saying that you were somehow being uncharitable or hypocritical in any way...just the opposite!
There is another "Anonymous" who never signs their name, who just likes to fly around like a gnat, biting and stinging with the only goal of inflicting irritation.
Dear Karen, we sound a lot alike.
Let us keep one another in our daily prayers.
Veronica
Veronica, It's a deal! And all the others here as well. Satan may try, and even succeed at confusing and discouraging me at times, but he can NEVER, by the grace of God, keep me from trying to achieve my goal of pleasing Our Lord, going to Heaven, and bringing as many souls with me as possible!
Susan, I know that you weren't referring to me, but one of the many "Anonymous" posters on the other thread did call us hypocrites. I am just acknowledging that I am one; the trouble with the "Anonymous" poster though is that he/she somehow fail to see his/her own hypocrisy, judgmentalism and lack of charity. As my husband says "If you want non-judgmental, go talk to a rock!"
I agree that there are people called to take others to task - like Carol - and rightly they should, but I am not one of them. My job, as far as I can ascertain (and please pray with me that Our Lord sends me an orthodox and deeply spiritual priest to direct me), is to pray and do penance and offer up my crosses, big and small, in atonement for my sins and the sins of all...Father, forgive us, we know not what we do!
Veronica
Anon,
I'm not trying to be presumptuous, so forgive me if I am wrong here, but....
The kind of anger & tenacity that you show here in order to get an apology from Carol is similar to that which I have seen many times in abuse survivors who feel reviolated when the accused is believed over the accuser. If that is your situation, I am sorry.
That said, I have enough faith in Carol's integrity that she would apologize if she felt that she had called the accused the liar. I believe her when she says that she was calling the process 'bullsheet.' There is a new article at 'These Stone Walls' (linked here) that addresses the very subject of society's acceptability of priests being denied due process. No other group is denied due process, which I believe was Carol's point.
I truly hope that you can come to accept this - not for Carol's sake, but for your own well being. The whole Corapi situation is a mess and has again shaken the faith of many. I pray that you find peace.
Sorry, I meant to say "....call the ACCUSER a liar..."
Maria, are you and Father Hard-on dating?
Anonymous: Why dont you tall us who you are? The comment you made is beneath contempt.
Unni might be gay, but he doesn't abuse people, doesn't use drugs, and is not living a double-life. Yet, you all vilify him.
In the words of Tony, in the Broadway musical, "West Side Story" - "The most beautiful sound I ever heard...Maria. Maria, Maria, Maria."
Maria, I am quite certain that Fr. Hardon would not appreciate you picking on one of his confreres.
Thata boy. I love when you show the fruit of John Unni.
Oh, we get it now. The pastoral section of the GIRM. Where it tells the priest to throw an alb to post-menopausal women and sit down in the sanctuary to watch her give out communion to the clapping fornicators.
That is quite a dissertation on what Sean Omalley finds attractive. Do you think you are doing him any favors?
What is next from the Cardinal? Inviting marginalized teens who have premarital sex to clap and sing about it in the sanctuary?
You would be very surprised who is paying attention. Very.
The consensus among his peers is that he's lost his marbles. But truth be told, he has not been in possession of them for a very long time.
The Unni-ites aren't satisfied with sexualizing the Catholic Mass---they have to bring their degraded sexual innuendos into this comment board.
Churchill's rebuke is most apt: "you are a disgrace to sodomy!"
Anonymous said...
Maria, I am quite certain that Fr. Hardon would not appreciate you picking on one of his confreres.
You are right. They are girlie men whose feelings are easliy hurt. Not like the goo old days when Jesuits were real men and they were liable to throw things at you in JUG. Mercy.
Unni is gay?
That is a shocker..
He is not gay.
Anonymous
If you can't provide proof regarding your allegations about John Corapi, put a lid on it.
Do you have a video? No? An audio? No? How about those messages he allegedly sent? They should be easily available. Where are they?
Written testimony won't convince me. Why, you ask? Because most people are easily bought these days. Judas-Catholics abound.
Veronica
Dear and sweet Veronica,
Likewise with the recording of Fr Unni's homily. Until we can hear it with our own ears, why should we believe what Carol has written? I have ears but I cannot hear.
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