Saturday, September 1, 2012

Mark Shea Orders Code Red on Fr. Peter West and Human Life International

You know how I've always given Mark Shea the benefit of the doubt?

Well, being semi-immobile, I witnessed an assault in action, from beginning to end, on Facebook and...I..ahhh...um...surrender.

From what I witnessed, Shea's conduct rises to the level of being labeled a dangerous person and quite frankly, is a situation that needs intervention.

I'm not going to get into the weeds of the interaction, but here is the Reader's Digest:

Fr. Peter West posted links to Mark's writings where Mark caricatures faithfully-practicing Catholics as no good bums and 'liars', a validly ordained Catholic priest who flawlessly taught the faith for years but then fell to addiction or sin as a 'fraud' and then alternately, a story Mark wrote about a man living with his lover whom he considered a saint. Mark's theory is when two lovers move in together, we don't know if they are having sex and therefore Catholics must characterize these types of living arrangements as the heroic virtue of celibacy right before our eyes.

Mark goes on in his column to advise the community of the faithful that when two lovers live together, this is the model of virtue and sanctity. We don't know what two lovers are doing shacking up in a place with one bed in it and we shouldn't care.

If they sing in the choir at Church, work in the soup kitchens and are well-trained in the social graces, they are very likely celibate saints.

After centuries of teaching our children that two lovers can't live together unless that relationship has been bound in the Sacrament of Marriage, Mark explains the Catholic Church has had it wrong all these years.

The Catholic Church should presume two lovers who live together are celibate unless they tell you they are not celibate or you see them having sex.

Mark has put the Catholic Church on notice that those who assent to the teaching of the Church are in fact very, very sinful and judgmental people, to think anything about two people shacking up other than "there goes two celibate saints".

A lot of Mark's readers on "Patheos" found this to be very,very refreshing news indeed. What a relief!

Naturally, rational people who know what's happening when two lovers move in together, tried to explain to Mark the problems with his asinine assertions, and dangerous witness and advice to the faithful.

I asked Mark numerous times if his assertions would apply to his own children, should one of them shack up, but he refused to answer. One must presume this is the advice he is bestowing upon parents whose children want to shack up with their lover. You shouldn't care if your children, neighbors, friends and people in the community whom you love, shack up. Presume they are celibate or you are sinning.

He doesn't know if your loved ones living together are having sex and he doesn't care. You shouldn't care. The priests shouldn't care.

If you do care enough to tell people this is an egregious theological error, you are defaming Mark Shea. Forget about defaming truth. Somehow, the theology of salvation has become all about defaming Mark Shea. And, his readers are only too happy to oblige him in this egotistical notion.

How's that for skullduggery.

That's the history.

The current donnybrook with Fr. Peter West happened when Fr. West advised that there is something seriously wrong with Mark Shea's theology and has advised people to stop using him as a source for Catholic theology. A conclusion a multitude of Catholics have (sadly) already reached.

Mark showed up with a sledgehammer claiming Fr. West was 'defaming' him. He made accusations of slander, calumny, blah, blah, blah.

To protect his inane assertions, he dragged the poor dead man out of his grave--who may well have been celibate--and tried to claim that unless Catholics assent that the patheos that two lovers who live together are to be presumed celibate saints by the community of the faithful, we are therefore saying the poor dead man was having sex with his lover. A round robin went on for days. His exit strategy from the bondoogle was to claim we all needed confession and forgiveness and he went off to pray for our illumination of our sins.

Mark went on his own facebook and posted about what a wounded animal he was, that he hoped 'Fr. West's superiors' would take care of the problem with Fr. West.

Everyone loves a victim. Mark put on a good show to wind up the rage of his readers. His fans began threatening Fr. Peter West and HLI. Fr. Peter West is now asking for prayers against the wiles of Mark Shea's fans who are actively threatening him.

Mark's bullying has to come to an end. He is a menace to faithful Catholics. I don't know who is in charge of EWTN, but I believe we should all give accounts of the conduct we have encountered from Mark Shea and ask them to stop providing him a pulpit.

I'll do some digging on who to contact and update this post with contacts.

Enough is enough.

63 comments:

Adrienne said...

I have considered Mark Shea an enemy of the Church for quite some time. He is a profoundly ignorant and uneducated man who is overly endowed with enough arrogance to choke a horse.

His willingness to viciously attack anyone who dares disagree with his pronouncements bears testimony to this.

It is people like Mark Shea and his ilk that eventually drove me from "Catholic" blogging. I wonder how many people he has actually driven from the Church.

And now he has a fellow Patheos blogger defending him against Fr. West.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/egregioustwaddle/2012/09/holier-than-none.html

Kelly said...

What I would like to know is--what exactly makes Mark Shea an authority? Why does he have disciples? I don't get it.

TTC said...

Adrienne,

I only scanned the article. The taste of the malicious and vicious and outright slander of a priest who dared to correct Mark Shea was too much for me.

I am aghast.

I repeat -- We all need to send "Incoming" to EWTN with our observations and experiences with Mark Shea.

I'm sorry to hear that Shea drove you to silence your voice. Shouldn't let anyone do that to you...

TTC said...

Kelly,

From himself?

There IS something seriously wrong with the man. His conduct is indefensible, abusive and he is a threat and a danger to Catholics who speak the truth.

Catholics in the pews have a long history of circling the wagons of people who whistleblow. Mark plays them to his advantage.

Rae said...

If you don't like what he has to say, don't read him. Good grief. He's a writer, and a good one , and any good writer will always have fans and folks who can't stand them. That's the nature of the craft. A good writer will often annoy people. Mark Shea often annoys me , but more often makes me laugh and makes me think. I would consider the advice Gamaliel gave in Acts. Let him alone.

TTC said...

Hi Rae,

That is the sad thing. Shea has many talents. He can be a good writer and very funny. But very funny, talented people can also can be abusive. When people are abusive, we don't leave them alone because they have other talents. We are righteous people.

His misuse of his talents (and the gross manipulation of the emotions of people who enjoy his talents) to call code reds and exact revenge on people who point out his errors, for the sake of souls and salvation, has to stop.

EWTN has never had a history of employing people who attack Catholics who correct theological errors and publicly speak out against the corruption, misuse of power, cowardice, etc., inside of our own Church.

It is possible they don't know. But that ignorance is going to be corrected. Then they'll have a decision to make.

He's been spoken to privately, pastorally encouraged with charity but truth. He has been cut loose from other apostolates for his conduct. When private conversations did not work, we warn the faithful. This is exactly what St. Paul advises us to do.

Can't let Catholics abuse other Catholics in our faithful apostolates. We don't have that many of them left. His diatriabes can continue on Patheos because everyone knows even witches and warlocks can post there. It does not hold the integrity to faithful Catholics of EWTN.

Rae said...

I disagree with policing writers because they don't conform to our personal standards of virtue or integrity. I don't know how many people plan to write to EWTN, but I guess I need to write them and express my support for Mr. Shea. I think he's got a lot of the gadfly in him, and that's a characteristic we need among our layfolks.

Of course I would probably think differently if I didn't think he was right in most of his opinions, even where I think he Ed being too harsh. I'd rather truth be spoken in love but I still prefer truth in snarkiness to falseness that has a smiling face. I don't know what the argument between Fr West and Mark Shea was, but I know I have agreed with Mr Shea on the substance of many of his criticisms, even if he wields a sharper pen than I do.

Adrienne said...

@Rae - what TTC said.

@TTC - I find political blogging to be much tamer ;-)

Joseph D'Hippolito said...

Rae, I have had the displeasure of being one of Mark Shea's targets for nearly a decade. I would like to post something that another former Catholic blogger, Victor Morton (an editor at the Washington Times) wrote in my defense in 2004 regarding Mark's behavior:

I swore I would never again acknowledge Mr. Shea's existence, but this thread is a perfect example of why Joseph is right that he is pursuing a persecutionist vendetta.

The reader will note above that the thread, prior to Joseph's first post, had not involved Mr. Shea. Further, it had nothing to do with the war on terrorism, nuclear weapons or just war, the state of Islam or anything else remotely related to Joseph's comments. Further, that Joseph's comments did not introduce those topics.


Mr. Shea's disagreement (he is not a bishop and has no real authority in these matters, so nothing he says can ever rise above that) is not an excuse to try to destroy somebody's reputation by repetitively injecting himself wherever Joseph may go, talking about whatever subject Joseph may, and calling him Osama bin Laden or a mass murder advocate. This was NOT disagreement with somebody, but an attempt to demonize a human being, to make him anathema as such, to pursue him like a stalking siren. And Joseph is right to protest it.

"Stalking" is an accurate description. I know for a fact that Mark has contacted the employers of people who have disagreed with him on his blog to try to smear their character.

This man has no business in any ministry, let alone apologetics.

TTC said...

Rae, if you are under the impression I find acerebic writinf offensive, permit me to divest you of that by inviting you to take a tour of this blog!

Abusive conduct can not be mitigated by opinion polls. It is wrong and must be rectified with action.

Threatening the employment and apostolates of a priest who us shepheding the flock to stear clear of advice contrary to truth is an outragious assault against truth and salvation. It
Cannot be tolerated. Something has snapped.



susan said...

Thank you for this post Carol...already threw every book out by Mark Shea that I owned (and I had quite a few). I would NEVER again trust his writing....have seen so much vicious, arrogant, condescending, vitriol flow from him the last few years; an ego the size of Texas, and a mean streak a mile wide. This really is the last straw. Will write EWTN this weekend.

Percy said...

Say what you will about Mark Shea on this point, but he was a shining light in Catholic blogdom against Catholic rationalizing of torture and warfare inconsistent with Catholic principles.

Rae said...

Well, I am flummoxed. There are two sides to every story, and I haven't heard his. I find it hard to believe he would threaten someone's employment. That's a serious charge. But I also don't really want to get involved in any he said, she saids. Like Percy, I am grateful that Mark Shea stood up publically against torture, when so many Catholics including some very close to me were arguing over the definition of torture.

I don't feel good about a campaign to get EWTN to sever its relationship with him. Doesn't that threaten his livelihood ?

I'll peruse the blog a bit , this is my first time here. I heard the ruckus over on Patheos, reading mr Shea's fellow writer's defense referenced earlier in that thread.

Rae

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

Carol, thank God a Catholic priest is publically taking Mark Shea to the woodshed for a long needed fanny warming! I hope Fr. West contacts Shea's parish priest and bishop and chews on them about his outrageous behavior!

Anonymous said...

When Mark's good, he's very good, but his rage at anyone who dares to disagree seems really pathological.

Charlotte

Elinor Dashwood said...

To the faithful: for your better information, Joseph d'Hippolito is an anti-Catholic with too much time on his hands. Don't bother arguing with him. He's just one of the systemic annoyances of Catholic blogging.

TTC said...

Rae,


It was Mark who threatened Fr. West's livelihood first (on facebook). What right does Mark have to get everyone in Patheos panties in a twist? Mark made a theological blunder and isn't man enough to accept it.

Don't you realize this in and of itself is disordered?

Threatening the livelihood of faithful Catholics seems to have become Mark's specialty.

It is getting old.

TTC said...

PS - I am in no position to question the men and women in our military who defend our sovereignty. I just wanted to say for the record that I am grateful for what they do every day to keep us safe. I am in their debt.

TTC said...

Elinor - thanks. Joseph posted here for several years under the guise he was a Catholic. One day about a year ago, he let it rip. His commentary is generally removed here at TTC. I let this one stand because he was victimized by Mark. With plenty of "God Bless You's" after the rage.

Thanks Susan! This time, he's gone over the top in outrageous.

Percy said...

Well, if our armed forces are ordered by their leaders to do things inconsistent with Catholic teaching on torture and warfare, it's our job as Catholics to call those leaders to task, and not merely be grateful. No consequentialism can excuse or rationalize under Catholic moral theology. The history of the Church criticizing immoral approaches to maintaining the public order goes back to Antiquity; even where the Church concedes that the secular arm will actually be the one making the choice, it never foreswears criticism of the choice. This has been an area many American Catholics have tried to finesse in the past decade, in a troubling echo of other "finesses" in morals in preceding decades. Mark Shea has been right to shed light and some heat in this area.

TTC said...

I agree Percy. No argument here. But I have generally found that there is exaggeration in what the Holy See considers against Catholic teaching.

Are there specific tactics our military uses that are listed in the Catechism or infallible teaching as prohibited or did Mark read between the lines?

TTC said...

When I did my research, I couldn't corroborate what Mark was teaching as defined Church teaching on intrinsic evil. He had an opinion. I found nothing that backed his assertions. If I am wrong, please correct.

Percy said...

TTC

Wow. I am not going down your alarming rabbit hole on that one. I am surprised that you've apparently fallen for the Coalition for Fog.

TTC said...

Percy - I am being totally sincere. I really have not kept up with the drama because I could not sink my teeth into any dogma that verified Mark's opinions.

If I am in error, I really wish to be corrected. I don't claim to be an expert on everything. People learn more from my comm boxes than my posts.

Mark's opinions are not the Magisterium.

If our military is using tactics that are listed as prohibitions in the Catechism - where all prohibitions are spelled out or some other infallible teaching - I really would like my ignorance to be corrected.

TTC said...

Crucifixion is clearly torture. Rape and sodomizing women is torture. Throwing acid is torture. Dismembering is torture.

These things and others are no brainers. To the best of my knowledge, our military is not using these techniques to extract information out of the Taliban.

I see little indignation from Barack Hussein's wars that have resulted in the torture, slaughter and crucifixion of Christians by the Taliban.

It just doesn't gel with me. Again, maybe I am ignorant. Please advise.

Lynne said...

Adrienne, I checked out that blog entry, http://www.patheos.com/blogs/egregioustwaddle/2012/09/holier-than-none.html

What a disappointment! Her political spin on everything was over the top. Mark has been someone I've avoided for a *long* time. He's more nasty than amusing. Ugh. I don't see this ending well...

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

Percy, Shea's vicious personal attacks on people is the issue here. His condemnation of so-called torture is totally irrelevant to what we're discussing. All your comments amounts to is 'defending' Shea without dealing with the real problem. I've seen this technique used in a religious cult I was in three decades ago. When someone started to criticize the leadership for their 'mistakes', the defense would be 'but look at all the good that was done by us'. The gullible followers ( me too!) would pay attention to that instead of the real problem. And the dissenters would be attacked, in a manner that is so familiar to those of us that had to deal with Shea. Shea, IMHO, fosters a cult mentality among his fans. If I were you Percy, I'd run like hell away from the Sultan of Seattle and learn to think critically.

Adrienne said...

@Lynne - I felt the same way. The Patheos crowd sticks together.

Now Mark is over at NCRegister having a major flame war with the commenters on Pat Archbold's article "Who is Mark Shea Talking About." Somehow or another he's turned it into another blah blah about torture.

Bottom line? Mark Shea gets waaaaay more attention then he deserves.

Lynne said...

I'm wondering how he can think he's a Christian when all he does is start arguments.

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

Carol, I went over to Fr. Peter West's Facebook page to see what was happening. I was impressed with the good father. He's showing a lot of Christian love toward this extremely disturbed man. And Shea is vomiting on him with a fiendish fury. BTW, I believe Shea behaves this way because he's a psychopath. I say this because he doesn't seem to have a conscience. His bizarre stalking of Joe d'Hippolito and others over the years, and his calling up peoples employers in an effort to get them fired is, IMHO, classic psychopathic behavior. A normal person would simply never do this kind of garbage year after year, without feeling some kind of remorse. He, by his public behavior, shows nothing of the kind, and I doubt he ever will. Pity.

StevenD-Jasper said...

That McPortland column was disgusting. There were others in addition to Shea at Patheos gloating over Father Corapi's downfall as well.

Father West is freshing. Of course like don't like him the same way they don't any masculine faithful Catholic who has a pair. Who could forget the 'Killer for Christ' column about Rick Santorem?


Carol, I hope you're feeling better..

Maria said...

Steven: Thanks. Dear readers all--please send up as many Aves as you can for Carol, as she has been going through an incredibly difficult time!

Catechist Kevin said...


Praying for your "difficult time," Carol.

God love you, dear.

CK

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

Mark Shea's supporters are coming out of the woodworks: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/2012/09/godandthemachine/mark-shea-worst-person-ever/

Gerald said...

I still remember all the demonization on his blog years ago (by Mark and others) of people who dared to suggest that Harry Potter was anything other than good Catholic storytelling (and his less-than-charitable rhetorical assaults on and calumny against Fr. Gabriel Amorth for daring to suggest otherwise). That was the first of many warning bells. His schoolyard bully tactics against anyone who dared voice dissent on his "papal bulls" regarding what is and isn't torture were the last straw. I used to have him as a link on my blog, and I used to link to a number of his posts in my own posts. No longer.

A pity, too. I found "By What Authority?" to be a much-needed read at a time when I was at a crossroads in my faith journey (I was also taking a religion class at a secular school at the time that was borrowing very heavily from the heresies of the Jesus Seminar). Seems like it's well past time to turn that question around on Mr. Shea.

StevenD-Jasper said...

Carol,
Father West is being told to shut up about Mark Shea by his superiors...see Fr West facebook page

TTC said...

Howza about that note from Bishop Loverde!

Take it offline. It's giving him a headache. LOL.

To me, this is like having a wifebeater in the community. For years Catholics watch him bully and abuse and say nothing when his family shows up with black eyes.

The pewsitters are content so long as everyone will let him continue to abuse in their sacred silence.

When somebody steps forward to intervene, stop the abuse and the abuser struggles and convulses with indignation, the pewsitters demand we let the abuser alone.

Priests who try to intervene are silenced by superiors. Bishops yell from their ivory towers to sit down and shut up.

It is a sick culture inside of the Church. Truly sick.

Thank God for the Sacraments!

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

Carol, what's this thing about a note from Bp. Loverde? I can't find anything abot it on Fr. West's page.

TTC said...

It's from his spokesperons Mike Donohue. I think Fr. West has it posted on his FB page.

Be sure to catch Mark's comments on Mark Shea. Worst. Person. Eva.

Really, what an ass.

TTC said...

Nobody can question him publicly. LOL. I think he thinks he's the Pope.

TTC said...

BTW - thank you Maria for the call for prayers - and to all those who sent private messages and posted here.

I had a little microvascular stroke in April or so. I finally went down for the count when I came down with shingles. I have a few good hours every day now and actually got out of my pajamas to do something other than see a doctor over the past few days.

There are a lot of fans of Mark Shea's who are going to be glad when I can get off of the couch for longer streches. LOL.

TTC said...

btw - wrote the following to Bishop Loverde's spokesperson: (do check out his adorable children!)

Michael, Your children are absolutely adorable. God bless them.

I wanted to drop you a note to let you know that it seems his excellency has not been fully informed of both the acute and more substantive long-term problem with Mark Shea. This is not a problem that is between Mark and Fr. West. Mark has suggested that Catholics are to presume that two lovers living together are celibate. Mark is teaching that Catholics should not care because whether they are sexually active or they are not is immaterial to their sanctity. In fact, Mark Shea is teaching that whether two gay lovers living together are celibate or they are not celibate is immaterial for consideration for their canonization.

The Bishop therefore cannot dismiss this hoo-ha by saying this is a private matter between Fr. West and Mark Shea because the post is a public one. Furthermore, Mark's conduct has been abusive to those have addressed Mark Shea both privately and publicly.

Mark, in fact, has a long history of making statements that contradict the Holy See and a long history of abusive conduct towards Catholics who attempt to correct his public guidance.

Would you kindly get a statement from Bishop Loverde as to the substance of Mark's assertions?

Specifically -

1. Now that the secular culture is teaching our young adults, children, neighbors, fellow Catholics in the pews to live together, does the Bishop agree that it is not a concern of the Catholic Church whether they are celibate or not celibate?

2. As Catholic lay people, if a relative, friend, loved one is living with their lover, is Mark correct that the Church is now teaching that presuming they are not celibate would be slander and sinful?

3. Is Mark correct, that it is now the teaching of the Church that two gay lovers living together are actually candidates for canonization?

If not, Mark Shea is misleading and scandalizing many people and should be publicly corrected.

4. Once it is established that Mark Shea has been both privately and publicly informed that he is misguiding Catholics is it Bishop Loverde's position that a Catholic priest can no longer publicly warn the flock that a theologian is teaching error and not to rely upon them as a source for Catholic teaching?

Educated Catholics know the answers to these questions of course, but Bishop Loverde's response is giving the appearance that concerned Catholics are giving him a headache and he therefore wishes to sweep it under the rug.

This leaves many Catholics in error.

Would you kindly get confirmation from the Bishop on these questions?

Thank you,
Carol McKinley
The Tenth Crusade

Anonymous said...

I am amazed it has taken people this long to figure Shea out. This is the way he operates:

http://www.culturewars.com/2011/Newton.htm#mail

Anonymous said...

This is indeed unfortunate. As Christians, we are to pursue unity. Anyone who says he is a follower of Christ is bound to pursue truth and reconciliation. Sadly, Mark Shea seems to have overlooked this and anyone who points it out to him is met with disdain and ridicule.

MRM

susan said...

Excellent letterCarol!...be sure to post the response you get.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

TTC said...

Susan, LOL. I keep refreshing my browser but nothing yet. I'll keep you posted.

Anonymous, that's an interesting link. Nobody in Christendom can lie, slander,bully and defame and then claim he's the victim, like Mark Shea.

It disgusts me that Catholics continue to protect abusive people with their asinine assertions they are being virtuous.

xavier rynne said...

Shea is an embarrassment to the Church. A loudmouth and bully. And so sensitive a bully too. Someone calls him out on his nonsense and he and his Patheos blogo-friends go into panic mode. Father West's points were well made; Shea tore Father Corapi apart, called him a fraud repeatedly, hounded him (along with many of his Patheos buddies), but this gay person is a saint.

Andy Kastone said...

I stopped reading Patheos bloggers long ago once I found out that they are paid every time there is a hit to their site. No doubt this is why Shea is so aggressive and belligerent, as it drives traffic up to his site. He is a former Protestant and it shows in the way he argues; he is a proof-texter extraordinaire and it's very tiresome. Patheos bloggers are also like a wolf pack in my view. Criticize one and all the others rush to defend and condemn and lecture about the rubes in the "comboxes." These are people who would not be of any note were it not for the internet.

Joseph D'Hippolito said...

Andy, Shea's behavior has nothing to do with being a former Protestant. It has nothing to do with being Catholic. If Shea belonged to any other faith, or no faith, he'd behave the same way.

What's really scary is that if Shea had lived in Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, he'd not only be one of the most fanatical Nazis or Communists you'd meet, but he'd be one of the more brutal members of the Gestapo or KGB.

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

Andy, Joe is correct. Mark Shea is a deeply troubled man. His religious background has no bearing on his behavior. The problem is not his religion, but what makes him behave the way he does. Based on personal experiences I've had and a lot of reading I've done, I'm convinced that Shea may have the personality disorder called psychopathy. He has displayed many of the traits of one over the years. Glibness/superficial charm,grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, cunning, manipulative are words that fit Mark like a glove in describing that way he relates to people. People who have not been hoodwinked by him or who have come to see the man for what he really is, see him as,lacking in remorse or guilt, emotionally shallow, callous and lacking in empathy, and failing to take responsibility for his own actions. We also see impulsiveness, irresponsibility, and poor behavior control. All of these traits in one person screams psychopathy. Andy, I hope this helps you understand that Shea would be Shea no matter what religion he professed. And for those of you wishing to know more about psychopathy, google it or read "Without Conscience" by Robert O. Hare, a classic book on the subject.

TTC said...


Andy - thanks for the warning on clicking the links.

Check this creepy behavior out:

http://contrapauli.blogspot.com/2012/03/mark-shea-brags-about-his-latest-raise.html

Shea is sick individual.

Lynne said...

Carol! Look at this post...
http://contrapauli.blogspot.com/2012/09/top-tips-for-faithful.html

and although I haven't seen 2016 yet, I agree with your daughter. I want a gun. There are some nice gun ranges/training facilities on both the South and North Shores...

TTC said...

Lynne,


Loved that post. Actually added them to my blogroll.

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

I've noticed that Fr. West is burying the hatchet with Mr. Shea. While I encourage any sincere attempt at reconciliation, both parties have to be sincere. Based on his past behavior, I don't believe Mark has a sincere bone in his body. In the past few years I've been on the internet, I've seen him repeat the same nasty behaviors over and over again. Based on what I've seen, these behaviors are deeply ingrained in his personality. My explanation for them is that he's a psychopath. He will never change for the better. Oh, he might issue an occasional 'apology', he will rewrite an article that got him into hot water, so he can make himself look 'good' but he won't forsake the evil, mean-spirited, way of life he's living. His past behaviors have shown that soon as the heat is off of him, he reverts to his familiar pattern of misconduct.
Fr. West is making a sincere effort to show Mark some grace, but sadly, as soon as it is necessary to correct him again,he will find out Mark only 'changes' for a selfish advantage. I hope that Father discovers this about Shea before he causes some real damage to his calling as a priest.to

TTC said...

Steve, Given the number of times Mark has pulled the same bury the hatchet act with, I wholeheartedly agree. It is naive to believe a pathological abuser is going to put down their hatchet. They are only going to use it on somebody else.

Catholics have serious problems acknowledging an sociopathic abuser in their midst and doing something about it. They want to believe all they have to do is show the abuser how wrong what they are doing is, and then ask them to stop. They lack the understanding that the kind of logic and reason you would use with normal persons does not work. There is an underlying sickness.

I would love to believe that Mark now realizes that his ability to earn a living is dangerously in peril and he will mend his ways. From what we have seen hundreds of times before, he seems incapable of stopping himself. So, we will wait for him to take the hatchet out and whack away at another faithful Catholic or apostolate.

Could be he is naive enough to think he has crippled Fr. West enough with the hatchet and the smooches of forgiveness that Fr. West will not criticize him again.

If I were to venture a guess, I'd say that is delusional.

Stay tuned!



Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

Carol, it just isn't Catholics who are naive about psychopathic abusers in their midst, it's also the general population. Most decent people never have the bad luck to encounter a psychopath. They don't understand that this kind of person is totally amoral. That's why reasoning with them doesn't work with them. They don't care about right and wrong; all they care about is, what's right for me.
His underlying sickness, IMO, is to be an important person. However, he has a lot of moral and spiritual baggage that he refuses to owe up to. The only thing that means anything to him is his perceived status as 'important'. That's why he sucks up to the world with anti-death penalty and pro-homosexual screeds. The 'important' people in the world, and sadly, in the church, believe in these things, so will Mark. And woe to the peon who dares to disagree with him! He's not 'important'.
The really sad thing about Mark Shea's drive to be important, is that he forgot or never learned in the first place, is that a Christian has to humble himself under God's hand and let him lift him up among the brethren. He will find out, but not learn, that self-exultation won't work in the long run in the Catholic Church. He will be shot down in flames by some angry priest or bishop who will take his responsibilities as a shepherd of his flock seriously, and not allow a flaming heretic to feed off his people.

Andy Kastone said...


Yes Shea is desperate to be "important." It's almost like he's never matured beyond college. i can't count the number of times he sets himself up as a Zeus of sorts while makes fun of "combos warriors", the people reading his more or less average and prolix commentary on everything under the sun. What surprises me is that formerly good writers like Scalia seem to have been co-opted by him, or fear of his bullying personality, and line up with him as if they were members of some elite blogo society. These two are heavily influenced by the powers that be at America magazine which is really too bad.

TTC said...

Andy,

Have they gone so far into the gutter they are ramming America Magazine down the throats of their readers?

Whoah. Didn't realize they have strayed that far.

I was never sure if Scalia was under the influence of Mark's bullying or the other way around.

I don't have the slightest idea who that Steve G is, but I'll tell the God's honest truth. These people believe themselves to be the American Popes. At one point, he actually said he and Mark may, in the future write about the theological reasons why Catholic priests should ignore two unmarried lovers shacking up.

I reminded him that, you know, the Holy See already has written guidance on the subject matter and his assertion contradicts his assertions. He blocked me! What a sissy.

Educated Catholics are a threat to their parallel magisterium. Their egos suck the oxygen out of their cyberspace.

It is a shame EWTN is being trampled by converts whose understanding of the faith is so immature.

Lynne said...

Well, America magazine, aka Father James Martin. I thought he would be an improvement over Father Reese but I guess not...

TTC said...

seriously? They are pushing that heretic? Wow.

Andy Kastone said...

TTC, i agree, yes, educated catholics threaten them. You can see this by their constant, I mean constant, ridicule of people who comment on their blog posts. As if operating a blog was some kind of sign of theological accomplishment. The very title of Shea's blogo, "Catholic and Enjoying It," is a subtle, protestant-inspired dig at the Church. As if he is shocked that it's something that could be enjoyed.

Steve Dalton said...

Carol, have you heard of Mark Shea's latest act of contrition for his sins? It's, IMHO, the biggest shuck and jive job I've ever seen. Go to his hog, er I mean blog, and read his post and the adoring comments of his combox zombies.

And if you think that's bad, Fr. Longdecker has a asinine post on his blog defending Shea, and pronouncing his repentance as the real deal. How dumb can a priest be?

I don't believe his repentance is real for the following reasons. One, he's making a big public show of it, before bringing forth fruits worthy of repentance. Two, he has not contacted, to the best of my knowledge, people like Joe d'Hippolito, who he cyberstalked for almost seven years, and phoning the workplaces of others trying to get them in trouble with their employers. Three, he's done this "I'm sooooo sorry" routine before, and nothing changed in the long run.

I stand by my original estimate of Shea, he's a psychopath. He will never change, except for the worst.

Anonymous said...

Mark Shea is a bully...if you say anything that moves him off his pedestal he will block you. How's that for humility?