I would think nothing of it. I think this is just a data-mining gimmick; they collect contact information and sell it to whoever might be interested in it. Remember how 4 years ago we were all inundated with petitions claiming that if we didn't sign (provide contact info) then the world would end tomorrow? I'm not rewarding that.
Well, there's no constitutional way for a state to secede. The president and Congress don't have the power to permit it. The issue was settled by the blood of a few hundred thousand men. And, with the Reconstruction Amendments, people are not only citizens of a state but of the United States and a state can't try to split that up, et cet. The effort is beyond ridiculous. And a profound insult to the lives of those who died to save the Union.
Percy, sorry, but the profound insult to the lives of those who died to save the Union is what this Federal Union has become under crooks that make George III look like Ronald Reagan.
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world..."
You can read the rest online...it's called The Declaration of Independence.
The idea that our countrymen died for the sake of unity under circumstances that elect a leader who is attempting to destroy the Republic is ludicrous.
SCOTUS has never opined that secession is not achievable. It can be obtained with consent and obtained with revolution.
Contiguous pieces of land can hold many nations. Those of you who want to demoralize and chemically sterilize women dumb enough to think this is respect and freedom, kill your sick relatives, ignore the slaughter of our brothers and sisters in other nations, open up your borders, discredit success, reward laziness, create a culture of race and economic warfare, live under sharai law - knock yourselves out.
The people who are alert, awake and oriented enough to want to opt out are exercising their right and duty to preserve what our forefathers died to bequeath to us.
Just to clarify: I am pro-life. Voted for Ron Paul.
But the SCOTUS did indeed rule that states cannot secede. In 1869.
Even odder is that, if one is a strict constructionist about the constitution, there is no power given to Congress, the President or the SCOTUS to permit or enable secession. It's a constitutional dead-end.
And attempting to resurrect the idea has for generations after the Civil War been considered beyond the pale of American discourse. MAybe I am too traditionalist for you.
“needless to discuss at length whether the right of a State to withdraw from the Union for any cause, regarded by herself as sufficient, is consistent with the Constitution of the United States[,]” the Court then determined that the Union was intended to be perpetual and then stated that after Texas entered into “an indissoluble relation” with the Union: “There was no place for reconsideration, or revocation, except through revolution or through the consent of the States.”
And the problem with the consent of the States is that an individual of a State would have standing to object to having his US citizenship deprived without his individual consent. It's a feedback loop: hence the constitutional dead-end. The escape hatch is illusory.
Perc, evidently, you have not been following what has already happened in our country. All three branches of power no longer exist. It is anarchy. You can trump the rights of citizens by getting your case in front of a judge who will rule in your favor. The constitution is gone.
There is a very small window of time to get it in under the radar. I applaud the heroic efforts to preserve pockets of our country from the tyranny of communism and marxism.
Gee Perc, ya got me there....the Supreme Court said I can't secede....
DRED SCOTT ANYONE????
Carol's absolutely right...this is no longer a country of law. We've seen that writ large under the currenct thugocracy...obama's OBLITERATED the Constitution, and the pieces that are left, he's using to wipe his royal arse with.
READ IT AGAIN....
--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, IT IS THEIR DUTY, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
In any event, since it's not going to happen, put $ where one's mouth is and move to Alabama or Mississippi (but remember, they are net recipients of federal assistance from net givers of federal assistance like Massachusetts). Not Louisiana - unless one is willing to give back all the Army Corps of Engineers' works that hold back all them rivers. Et cet. And then there's this about Louisiana from one of my favorite commentators:
Perc, I beg your pardon. I must have expressed myself poorly. I was speaking about observing the pipe dreams of others.
I'm not sure I understand your reference to 'move' what 'really bothers me. The crowd has crowned caligula and bartered for barabbas. Unity with that is not possible.
I don't posses the power to change the consequences foretold to us in scripture.
The only meaningful opposition to the Obuma regime lies with the 30 Red state governments. It will become increasingly clear that Obuma's experiment in Euro socialism leads to economic and social stagnation. The go along to get along crowd of Beltway Republicans e.g. Boehner, McConnell and their operatives like Karl Rove, are running on empty and are fellow travelers with the "party of centralized government". The likes of Scott Brown, Richard Tisei and the rest of the loser Northeast Republican opportunists will continue to be discredited when compared with the actual records of success coming from the Red States. The answer is not secession but a recognition that the states are an equal player within our federal system.
22 comments:
I would think nothing of it. I think this is just a data-mining gimmick; they collect contact information and sell it to whoever might be interested in it. Remember how 4 years ago we were all inundated with petitions claiming that if we didn't sign (provide contact info) then the world would end tomorrow? I'm not rewarding that.
Jane, I don' remember that!
do you mean Alabama?
I'll move to a secessionist state in a heartbeat.
Is Alabama attempting it too?
This yankee would never make it in he south!
Ha. There's 20
http://www.examiner.com/article/20-states-file-petitions-to-secede-from-usa-texas-reaches-threshold-signatures
Well, there's no constitutional way for a state to secede. The president and Congress don't have the power to permit it. The issue was settled by the blood of a few hundred thousand men. And, with the Reconstruction Amendments, people are not only citizens of a state but of the United States and a state can't try to split that up, et cet. The effort is beyond ridiculous. And a profound insult to the lives of those who died to save the Union.
Percy, sorry, but the profound insult to the lives of those who died to save the Union is what this Federal Union has become under crooks that make George III look like Ronald Reagan.
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world..."
You can read the rest online...it's called The Declaration of Independence.
Percy,
What Suzie said.
The idea that our countrymen died for the sake of unity under circumstances that elect a leader who is attempting to destroy the Republic is ludicrous.
SCOTUS has never opined that secession is not achievable. It can be obtained with consent and obtained with revolution.
Contiguous pieces of land can hold many nations. Those of you who want to demoralize and chemically sterilize women dumb enough to think this is respect and freedom, kill your sick relatives, ignore the slaughter of our brothers and sisters in other nations, open up your borders, discredit success, reward laziness, create a culture of race and economic warfare, live under sharai law - knock yourselves out.
The people who are alert, awake and oriented enough to want to opt out are exercising their right and duty to preserve what our forefathers died to bequeath to us.
It is up to 40 states. Can you all squeeze into 10 big communes with a couple of extermination facilities on each end of the state?
:)
Just to clarify: I am pro-life. Voted for Ron Paul.
But the SCOTUS did indeed rule that states cannot secede. In 1869.
Even odder is that, if one is a strict constructionist about the constitution, there is no power given to Congress, the President or the SCOTUS to permit or enable secession. It's a constitutional dead-end.
And attempting to resurrect the idea has for generations after the Civil War been considered beyond the pale of American discourse. MAybe I am too traditionalist for you.
I believe you are mistaken. If you review Texas v White, SCOTUS left us a golden parachute.
I don't see anything "traditional" in your responses and opinions but perhaps it is me.
Here's the golden parachute in the decision:
“needless to discuss at length whether the right of a State to withdraw from the Union for any cause, regarded by herself as sufficient, is consistent with the Constitution of the United States[,]” the Court then determined that the Union was intended to be perpetual and then stated that after Texas entered into “an indissoluble relation” with the Union: “There was no place for reconsideration, or revocation, except through revolution or through the consent of the States.”
And the problem with the consent of the States is that an individual of a State would have standing to object to having his US citizenship deprived without his individual consent. It's a feedback loop: hence the constitutional dead-end. The escape hatch is illusory.
Perc, evidently, you have not been following what has already happened in our country. All three branches of power no longer exist. It is anarchy. You can trump the rights of citizens by getting your case in front of a judge who will rule in your favor. The constitution is gone.
There is a very small window of time to get it in under the radar. I applaud the heroic efforts to preserve pockets of our country from the tyranny of communism and marxism.
Gee Perc, ya got me there....the Supreme Court said I can't secede....
DRED SCOTT ANYONE????
Carol's absolutely right...this is no longer a country of law. We've seen that writ large under the currenct thugocracy...obama's OBLITERATED the Constitution, and the pieces that are left, he's using to wipe his royal arse with.
READ IT AGAIN....
--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, IT IS THEIR DUTY, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Even Justice Scalia doesn't think states have any right to secede. Secession talk is WOTLP (Way Out There, Like Pluto):
http://www.redstate.com/2012/11/13/is-it-time-to-roll-up-the-welcome-mat-here/
In any event, since it's not going to happen, put $ where one's mouth is and move to Alabama or Mississippi (but remember, they are net recipients of federal assistance from net givers of federal assistance like Massachusetts). Not Louisiana - unless one is willing to give back all the Army Corps of Engineers' works that hold back all them rivers. Et cet. And then there's this about Louisiana from one of my favorite commentators:
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/up-with-louisiana-secession/
"WOTLP" too funny.
The links provided cite John Boehner as the enemy we must fight in Washington but Obama is our elected friend. That's my idea of WOTLP!
If there is an ending without division, it is not enumerated in the scripture but I like the pipe dream.
Yes, the pipe dream is a good one.
Why dream? Why not move if it really bothers you that much? Dreaming is so second-rate.
Perc, I beg your pardon. I must have expressed myself poorly. I was speaking about observing the pipe dreams of others.
I'm not sure I understand your reference to 'move' what 'really bothers me. The crowd has crowned caligula and bartered for barabbas. Unity with that is not possible.
I don't posses the power to change the consequences foretold to us in scripture.
The only meaningful opposition to the Obuma regime lies with the 30 Red state governments. It will become increasingly clear that Obuma's experiment in Euro socialism leads to economic and social stagnation. The go along to get along crowd of Beltway Republicans e.g. Boehner, McConnell and their operatives like Karl Rove, are running on empty and are fellow travelers with the "party of centralized government". The likes of Scott Brown, Richard Tisei and the rest of the loser Northeast Republican opportunists will continue to be discredited when compared with the actual records of success coming from the Red States. The answer is not secession but a recognition that the states are an equal player within our federal system.
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