Wednesday, December 12, 2012

The Brouhaha about "how many are saved"

Have y'all been following it?

 Fr. Barron has kicked up a dust storm with this piece.

 Yeah. Okay.

 Wait a minute...What?!

 I'm a huge fan of Fr. Barron's, but I'm not sure this treatise adequately defines Catholic theology on salvation. Perhaps I misunderstand him, but Fr. Barron's piece seems to convey the idea that Christ's Incarnation, Sacrifice and Death which purchased the Institution of the Catholic Church, was a salvific covenant with every cat in town.

 It gives the impression that unrepentant sinners and pagans are a branch on His Vine.

 I don't understand why Fr. Barron would even attempt to speculate what the word 'many' means. 

Whatever number has been faithful during the 2000 years of generations of Catholics, there are a lot of us. The word many applies. It is a number to rejoice over. But many does not translate to most and it definitely doesn't mean all.

 Christ does not give pearls to the swine nor food to the dogs. During His entire ministry. He repeatedly tells the gentiles that they are unworthy and excluded. Unless, of course, they profess their faith in Him. He makes the gentiles publicly declare their faith before He performs a miracle to avoid the confusion and scandal that all would be fed His Truth, given His Substance of His Divinity and salvation.

 As usual, Voris clarifies some of the content beautifully, here.

  If a particular protestant is admitted into Heaven, it is despite it. And, the same goes for buddists, muslims and all the rest.

 There is no doubt, as it is Church teaching, that Mercy will be granted to particular people within a group who are exiled, depending upon their circumstances.

 They were in the middle of a desert, without the means to hear and know the Truth. They were low IQ and not capable of understanding, processing the spoken and written word. Victims of other people, who are in so much pain - they were irrevocably scandalized. They were martyred for their Christianity. Pedophiles, murderers, cannibals and pagans can be saved.

 But we don't author a piece implying they can go right on doing what they're doing because Christ's Mercy will greet them and escort them to Paradise.


breathnach said...

This is a replay of Hans urs von Balthasar's speculations in his book, Dare We Hope "That All Men Be Saved"? Von Balthasar claimed claimed there was no certainty that anyone is in Hell or ever will be in Hell. He stated that "the Church ... has never said anything about the damnation of any individual. Not even about that of Judas." Thus, he declared, every Christian has the "obligation" to hope that all men are saved, including Judas.

Modern theologians are prone to stand in the place of God. Their worldly notions of "compassion" tend to replace Truth in their speculations. And that is all they are "speculations".

susan said...

Emotionalism has replaced rational thinking. "I feel" is this culture's mantra and creed. Pardon my lousy Latin, but "lex percipi, lex crendendi". It's the main reason that the absurd notion of "gay marriage" has gained such a zealous foothold in our age, with polyamory, pedophilia, and bestiality soon to follow with civil approbation (and yes, I am placing them ALL as steps on the same stair). Emotionalism dovetails seamlessly with relativism; two poisonous branches off a fetid bush.

The vile heresy of Universalism is once again bubbling to the surface, this time through Fr. Barron, as it did through Fr. Neuhaus, as it did through Von Balthasar. It is a heartache to see otherwise decent shepherds peddling this snake inspires many to presumption and spiritual indolence, leads countless to hell, and saves no one.

susan said...

...and y'know, one other quick reading Fr. Barron's article, I know he places all his eggs in the basket of a section in "Spe Salvi" does any of this square with OUR LORD's own words in Matt 7:13-14? I think we often get waaay too involved with our own rationalizations on how we think God should act, that we forget how He has actually revealed Himself. Dangerous road, that.

TTC said...

Susan, Breathnatch, beautifully said.

How anyone (especially a priest) could or would produce a treatise that defiles the instructions necessary for salvation is beyond me.

Fr. Barron produced something else that was off of the reservation several months back.

Somebody around him is feeding him kookaid.

It is a pity.

PS. Sorry about the formatting on this post. I absolutely hate this version of blogger. It is ten times the amount of work to copy, format, post. If they dont fix, I will be switching next year.

mike hurcum said...

here we go again. replacing spirituallity with sensuality. Nevertheless Jesus came to save everyone. What a dreadful pity very few take advantage of His sacrifice and want to be our own. It is so very sad we are (in many minds) I mean that is in our own opinions I am saved my way not Christ's. So many has got it better and make it easier than the Son of God's

Joseph D'Hippolito said...

There's one simple way to refute a lot of these high-falutin "theologians" who question whether there is a Hell. Revelation 20: 6-15. If Scripture is divinely inspired -- and St. Paul says it is (2 Timothy 3:16) -- then that should end the issue.

Besides, if there is no Hell, then there is no justice for the victims of Hitler, Stalin, Khomeini, Charles Manson, etc. If there is no Hell, then God is not just.

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

Carol, Fr. Barron has been "off the reservation" for a long time now. He's also against the death penalty as well. If you want to see some proof of how 'off'he really is, go to and put Fr. Barron into the on site search engine. It's sad.

Maria said...

I am amazed at easliy people have been sucked in by him. He is another one waiting to fall "like cheap tinder" as Fr Hardon would say...

Maria said...

I am amazed at just how easliy people have been sucked in by him. He is another one waiting to fall "like cheap tinder" as Fr Hardon would say...He is remarkably enamored of himself. The Catholicism series. Oh, $ 125. It was the first clue.

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

The fact that Mark Shea thinks so highly of Fr. B should be a warning sign too.

Maria said...

CATHOLICISM Study Program Leader's Kit Our Price: $189.95

Hmmm. Go forth and preach the gospel to all nations for say, oh, 189.95.

Servant of God Father John Hardon SJ pray for us...

Dymphna said...

Hmm. Steve that's always a warning sign for me.