Are they serious?
God's abundant blessing upon the young lady who has found her way from atheism to Christ. The lack of discretion is not her fault. I wouldn't exactly give her a clean hands certification, but this is the fault of the poorly-formed adult converts who saw the distance between an atheist and Catholic theologian as a couple of RCIA classes and an internet cash cow.
Check out this sophistry from infamous character on patheos who warned Leah that a woman who is sexually active with women AND men may run into the Catholic Inquisition when she writes things to discredit Church teaching:
Well, actually, I’ve known that Leah thought this since forever, just as I’ve known that Leah did not magically get rid of her bisexual orientation when she came to faith in Christ. Indeed, we spoke about it at the time and I warned her that the Combox Inquisitors would be out in force looking for blood and asking “What? How come you are still bisexual and have problems with some of the Church’s teaching after you’ve been baptized? CINO! Fifth columnist? Infiltrator! Subversive! Celebrity convertses! We hates it forever!”I'll bet you can guess the identity of that crackerjack.
Look - let's stop beating around the bush.
While Leah is 'a new convert thinking Catholic teaching through' she has the responsibility not to publish and encourage her problems with immorality. If she doesn't know any better, and the adults operating Patheos don't know any better, Catholics to whom the Deposit of Faith belongs need to to tell her to keep her personal opinions to herself or stop writing about moral issues until she is more educated and can assent to Church teaching.
This is what responsible Catholics do.
I get a really creepy feeling when I read Patheos - like they really don't care what is written, who they are leading into peril, their objective is to get as many hits as possible to earn money for themselves.
Kinda like the circus at the Chancery.
The exploitation of Christ is really getting hard to watch.
35 comments:
OMGosh! Too funny. I just got through sending an email to someone about this very thing. What appalled me is Mark Shea, even though he thinks she's wrong, defending her fine character, blah, blah, blah. At the same time he was ripping into Voris and dragging up Corapi. Completely schizophrenic.
Creepy is a person who doesn't give a rip who she beds. Boys, girls - what's the dif?
I'll leave you to my closing comment on the email:
What the hell is wrong with those people???
And another thing (I'm on a roll) - how come if she's so dang brilliant she hasn't gotten all this Catholic stuff straight yet?? Inquiring minds want to know.
Adrienne,
A woman who starts a blog with an agenda to encourage immoral sex and sin wins Mark Shea's favor while he maliciously directs rage at Voris, Fr. Z and Fr. West - who faithfully teach and encourage virtue and sanctity.
It's sick and scandalous. I think you know what's wrong?!!
You're right. I do know what's wrong. Sigh...
BTW - Shea loathes me. I was banned after one innocent and carefully worded comment.
He attacked me once over at Terry's and he got so ugly that Terry finally deleted the whole thing.
I wonder how much damage these people do to other Catholics who are not well catechized? Okay - that was a silly question.
And, yes - Patheos is creepy!
You were bullied and banned. That's about right. He is abusive and his theology is inconsistent with the Deposit of Faith. It seems EWTN is letting the dogs in to maul faithful Catholics. I hope this Ishtar doesn't wind up with a blog at the Register.
Thanks SO much for this post and great minds work alike. I am giviing up trying to say really orthodox things on her blog and some of the other writers are really bad. I wrote a blog post on this this morning without naming names.
Dangerous and misleading site.
http://supertradmum-etheldredasplace.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/on-buried-loincloths.html
Sorry about errors. Am not well today, so please pray for me. Ta muchly for your good blog.
Is Patheos more dangerous than the National Catholic Reporter?
Well, yes, it is. And I'm glad others are writing about this. "Creepy" is the perfect word to describe these woefully misguided souls and Professional Converts like Mr Shea. I would venture to say that anyone with a sensus Catholicus should be able to pick up on the wrongheadedness of the people involved with that site fairly quickly.
There is also the current phenomenon which can best be described as a sort of mental disorder (or "diabolic disorientation") when it comes to the subject of buggery. I can scarcely believe how many people have taken leave of their senses when it comes to this unpleasant subject. I have no explanation for it that makes sense to me. Shea, for example, is an acolyte of the decidedly weird Father Robert Sirico, champion of "the free market" and champion of homosexuality. It is incredible how many Catholic blogs have this skewed idea of the crime of sodomy. I truly believe some of these people have lost their marbles.
It does pain me to see generally good and sensible Catholic sites continually linking to them. That's another tragic result of Rome being asleep at the switch for so many, many, many decades. While strong, clear, firm and unambiguous teaching has been notable by its absence in the Church the void left is filled in with poorly-instructed minds like those at Patheos and, sadly, dozens of other Catholic websites and blogs. This horrible situation is what prompted me to start my own blog.
When there is no firm hand at the wheel, the ship of the Church steers in many wrong directions.
Thanks for bringing this up. And let us all hope that the Sheas of this world will either begin to truly understand what it means to be Catholic, or just go away.
This is a side-point, but I always thought it was odd that an atheist convert would have gay stuff as their hang-up. It is utterly irrational from a psychological, anatomical, evolutionary or health standpoint, and I could probably come up with a few others.
Of course, if you're already into it, then I guess you'd try and rationalize your way into keeping hold of it. Sad case. I can be sympathetic to someone who converts and tries to learn Catholic teaching, but not someone who comes in and tries to attack it. Cherie Blair is another example.
Patheos sucks.
ps- look at the sickos attacking Leo XIII in that thread!
The more I read Shea's comments on sexually-active homosexuals, the more I'm persuaded he's supportive of gay sex. I'm sorry if this is too strong a statement for some of you, but it doesn't make sense to me that a normal Catholic layman, over a period of a year, would make the comments about Lorenzo and this new convert if he was really sound in the faith. Also, his willingness to be photographed with Rev. Robert Sirocco, a man who is unqualified to be a priest by reason of his sodomite past, also raises a red flag, especially since Fr. Bob is from Shea's home town, and was very active in the sissy rights movement there.
IMO, Marky's parish priest needs to tell him to knock this bs off, or risk excommunication. He has proven time and time again that he won't take correction from anybody, except on his terms. He need to learn that he can't have it his way all the time. This is way overdue!
Right on Carol!
Shea just the other day was back to trashing Father Corapi. Shea is not stable and hates masculine men as does Scalia and several others over there. They're a wimpy crowd. They had several recent posts attacking Voris, like he's the problem with the church!
No, I do not get a good feeling at Patheous as well..
Supertradmum, thanks for confirming. I don't know how you can stand going over there! You were lifted in prayer at Mass today. Hope you are feeling better.
Aged Parent, thanks for letting me know about your blog - I'll be visiting.
I absolutely agree that there is some kind of disorientation that is not of human origin. Women have fallen to into the same swamp.
It's frightening really. Like watching people by the thousands follow a pied piper in a daze over a cliff.
Muir - If it's one thing they loath, it's devotion and respect for the Divinity in the Eucharist. Bashing Leo XIII makes perfect sense.
Carol, I rely on blogs like yours to keep me advised of goings on with National catholyc Register and Pathetic. Their antics are never challenged by US bishops.
In contrast,Worcester's Bishop McManus has withdrawn an invitation to speak from Robert Spencer, well known author and blogger on Islamic extremism. It seems that as soon as an Islamic group ginned up a campaign to silence Robert Spencer (with help from the Globe's "religion" reporter), the invitation was revoked and the Diocese failed to personally notify Mr. Spencer. Cowardly stuff. I expected better from Bishop McManus.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/01/catholic-event-cancels-talk-by.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/02/diocese-of-worcester-canceled-robert-spencer-talk-at-insistence-of-self-proclaimed-friend-and-suppor.html
At least NCR doesn't hide who they are. Patheos is a sewer pit of sad, weak 'Catholics'
I'm glad we have Carol, I really look up to her like a second Mom. (Even though she's way to young to be my mom!)
I could not agree more. I call it Pathetic now. It is morphing into something really negative. Mark Shea is a raging egomaniac and horrible know-it-all. He also espouses polygenism. My advice to all is stop reading him.
Steve, That made me cry! Thank you.
I feel blessed to have such smart, educated and zealously-in-love-with-Christ readers. We are learning from each other. I offered your praise to Our Blessed Mother and thanked her for leading all of us to her Son.
You're so right. At least NCR has the decency to keep their agenda transparent.
Breathnach, thanks for your support and for the heads up on Bishop McManus. I guess disclosing honest information on the violent threat to women and children, Christians and the Jews is another thing we can add to the list of Episcopal secrets. You know something - if they set up death camps and start burning people - I honestly believe the Bishops would pretend they didn't know or see and they would forbid the faithful from discussing it. The cowardice is ripening for some good times ahead, I fear.
Polygenism? How is that even possible to contemplate in light of our documented lineage from the hand of God's creation of Adam and Eve?
It's akin to being stumped about the lineage of St. John the Baptist.
It's an irony that when we are no-nothings, we think and act like know-it-alls.
I was thinking back a couple of decades ago when I had trouble with the teachings of the Church on contraception. I taught CCD at that time but I pledged never to scandalize any person, especially a child, with my own conflicts and scandal. And, I never did. Sometimes the high schoolers would ask really hard questions which I was struggling with myself--but I read like a fiend on the teachings and had them on the top of my tongue so I could teach Christ's teachings to them with the conviction of Christ's Heart. I was not there to teach my opinions. My job was to bring them to Him - to His tools for living and making good choices for the rest of their lives.
As I educated myself for their sake, keeping my vow to Christ, the lights dawned in my own head.
What Leah and others are doing over at Patheos reprehensible and offensive to Catholics who own the Deposit of Faith.
Polygenism was condemned by Pius XII in Humani Generis. Shea seizes on one phrase in one sentence and argues that, basically, Pius didn't really mean that polygenism is incompatible with Christianity and Revelation.
He is obsessed with tearing down Voris, "conservative" Catholics, and dredging up what happened with Father Corapi in the most insulting and uncharitable terms. I'd rather chew glass than read him at this point.
Meanwhile, he accredits and affirms a woman selling menage-e-trois under our Crucifix.
I honestly do not get how even a moron could give birth to polygenism. The descendants of Adam and Eve are spelled out by name in the Bible and read aloud in the Sacred Liturgy. The stories of the descendants are chronicled in the Old Testament. The man has his own magisterium and is engaged in a terrible and public war between his ego and his soul - and his ego is winning. I can't watch it either. It's a train wreck that makes my stomach sick. I am not exaggerating.
Polygenism is just the latest fad of the secular evolutionists. 20 years ago the New York Times itself had an article in the science section saying that all evidence pointed to the origination of mankind from two original parents, or monogenism. Now the rage is polygenism, which is really kind of hilarious. The notion of lots of different men and women suddenly "springing up" all over the globe is comical. There's no evidence for it at all.
Polygenism, if accepted, would be lethal to our religion. And Shea is out there ranting on and on about it while posing as a reliable source of Catholic information. Polygenism is not compatible with original sin, the Fall, or the incarnation of Jesus for that matter.
What cracks me up about Shea are all his sycophantic "I Love So and So!" posts (usually some other Patheos blogger) and then, when you read along into the post, he switches for praising a colleague to absolutely lambasting a Voris, or Corapi, or "trade." It is psychotic.
love reading your blog TTC.
I don't go there much, as I rarely find anything worthwhile, but Pathetic strikes me as a closed, self-referential little group of people who largely say and think the same things. One guy will say 'I love so-and-so blog,' then that guy will say 'I love so-and-so's blog who loves so-and-so blog.' On and on.
It's like going to a party with all Star Trek dorks (and you know nothing about Star Trek), but all the while they drone on to each other about the part in Episode 38 where Spock scratches his head.
I hope this girl can get away from the Neo-Cat Blog Borg and get back on the right path.
The kind of love one will see in hell.
One is at a disadvantage as a convert. It's the difference between a delicate species of flower rooted and growing in its environment for centuries, passing through the phases of every season and one that has been transplanted in the Spring. An indelible mark on a soul baptized as an infant has the benefit of Sacramental Grace all of its life. We can use it, abuse it, forbear it and even abandon it, but our gut always knows when something isn't theologically right. We have all the pieces of the puzzle. Grace is passed down through our lineage.
Many converts have been infused with Sacramental Grace (like our friend Kelly) but most come to Christ and conversion because they fall in love with Christ. Their spiritual resources come from their own intellect. Even those with the best intentions, zealously pursuing Truth in surrender--they may find all of the pieces to the puzzle but they can't put the picture completely together for a very, very long time-if ever. They take a sentence out of context because they do not have the knowledge of it's roots. (That what's scary about the trajectory at EWTN. We are seeing some of the consequences).
I don't mean any disrespect to converts. There is nothing superior in the humanity of cradle Catholics. Converts are our life's blood. In fact, Christ did not come to Catholics after centuries of enrichment. He didn't choose to cultivate His Apostles from the educated elders, priests and bishops. He choose fishermen and tax collectors. Cradle Catholics are a bit like those born into their financial wealth left to them by parents and grandparents. Nothing more, nothing less.
I agree with that. It's super that Shea converted, but not super that he has set himself up as a new and very loud magisterium of sorts on all things Catholic. His willingness to dismiss Humani Generis, for example, was all I needed to realize, "oh this is a garrulous convert with a shallow understanding of the Catholic Church." A cradle catholic would just automatically have more of a sense, a hesitation, to blithely dismiss a pope as brilliant and saintly as Pacelli while advocating for the precise heresy he declared that Catholics could not entertain. Not so with him. A true bull in a china shop.
Carol, Shea believes in polygenism because he's a believer in theistic evolution. I've butted heads with him once on his belief in evolution being incompatible with the true faith. His reply was the church allows both a belief in creationism and evolution. Sadly, some church authorities, such as our current pope, have said similar things. The fact that none of the popes and church fathers before Vatican II ever taught evolution as allowable doesn't seem to register with him. All that's important to him is what the prelates of the VII era have said. If you believe in the traditional teaching on creation, you're a 'fundamentalist'. Jimmy Akins, Dave Armstrong, and Karl Keating are also believers in theistic evolution and paste the fundie label on those who hold the traditional belief.
Thanks for your kind words, Carol. I have just been extremely blessed with having been schooled in a lot of hard knocks and my own pride so as to know how wretched I am, and how far He has brought me anyway--I think I am just blessed with a certain simplicity and trust. I stay away from the super-intellectual discussions. I remember Fr. Corapi used to say some people were so educated they were stupid. No danger of that for me, lol.
I see the Church like a family. We stick with God's plan for it even when different member go off the rails. Even high up members.
Too simple, I know.
Kelly, You are blessed - and we are blessed by your witness.
Steve, Those who believe it is extreme to believe the Truth about the creation of human life as it is revealed in Scripture are useful idiots.
Steve, I think Shea goes beyond theistic evolution (God breathing a soul into an ape-like creature) to holding that a lot of different human beings sprang up all over the place (polygenism). It's worse than theistic evolution in that sense. It's not only incompatible with the Faith, but it's bad and faddish science.
i've never seen anyone with no real credentials hold forth like he's Aquinas or Augustine.
Xavier and others, he probably 'evolved' in his beliefs since I tangled with him a couple of years ago. He recently said on his blog that he no longer believed that Noah's flood was universal. Usually, people who hold to that belief are polygenistics. The people who hold to this idea seem to believe certain races (Blacks, Jews, or Orientals) are descendants of a pre-flood population that the disaster didn't touch. They also claim that Noah and his family were white, and the purpose of the flood was to save the white race from race mixing. I have no idea if Marko believes in that foolishness, but if he's being drawn to polygenism, he may soon be there.
He said Noah's flood wasn't universal?
Wow. He was born to go through the Bible and tell us all where the Holy Spirit errs in the teachings. The coming of the Mark.
I would really love to know what happened at EWTN. The woman is still alive and I know that she would blow the hole thing up rather than turn it over to people who discredit our religion. Didn't she say once she would burn the whole thing to the ground before giving the USCCB authority over content? Something like that.
http://www.sanctepater.com/2013/02/cardinal-mahony-versus-mother-angelica.html
yeah
"I'll blow the damn thing up before you get your hands on it."
Mark Shea goes to Blessed Sacrament Church in Seattle. I strongly suggest you write his pastor about his behavior, encourage the pastor to meet with Mark and suggest both spiritual direction and psychological counseling. It's obvious that Shea has emotional problems, let alone spiritual ones. You can do a google search for Mark's church.
BTW, I wouldn't write the Archbishop of Seattle. He'd probably kick it down to the pastor, which the pastor probably wouldn't appreciate. Write to the pastor directly.
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